Mezeron & Steam Packet Master Thread

[hboy]

Woodward is clearly making a play for a direct subsidy, but somebody needs to tell him (perhaps Labour's Liam Byrne) that "There's no money left".

 

It was only a few years ago that a lucky few senior SPC employees were boasting of getting mega bucks from the old buyout. Now the hand is out for taxpayers money now its looking a bit rocky. Maybe some of them should of looked a bit less smug when they were flashing the cash around a few years back. Cheeky, cheeky bastards.

[pongo]

It still comes back to two basic questions:

 

1. Why should a vehicle and passenger service be cross - subsidized by the containerized freight business? The effect of that is to make it more expensive to do business on the IOM. If the passenger and vehicle service needs to be subsidized as an essential service then why not ring fence that part of the business and let central govt provide additional funds directly out of taxation ?

 

2. What level of profit is sustainable ?

[Silentbob]

Sorry I digress, kevster it's from Caen - Pompey

 

Well they can afford to do it cheap because they carry a lot more frieght that the SP and as has been mentioned, the profits from freight subsidise the passenger fares.

 

People are expensive to move in ferries. They want space, bars, shops, restaurants, and so on. You also need a lot more crew members to look after them. Freight on the other hand is cheap and easy to move. It uses the available space efficiently and doesn't need pampering en route.

 

I dont recall EVER being pampered on a SP crossing, I remember being loaded into a single large room with babies crying, drunks arguing, old ppl vomiting, with the only chance of escape being the open deck in high winds, driving rain and then being told i cannot smoke because it might set a metal boat on fire.

 

Fuck SP, fuck them in their stupid asses, 36% profit following a couple of years ago of 51% profit; they have been robbing us blind for years, and i hope they get royally fucked.

 

I would sooner go to the UK inside a Mezeron container than pay SP another penny for their overpriced and piss poor service.

[mannin1]

Conjecture is worthless at this point, so as one who has to use the Racket to have my holidays et'c, I will await with much trepidation to see not only what the Rackets response is but what our trusted Buffoons answer will be.

The idea of Gov't taking over is ludicrous in the extreme, as they have yet to acknowledge that w even have any problems at all, and in many other areas!

Tourists are discouraged from coming here by high prices in every aspect, not just travel.

The channel Islands Abrogated and are thriving by all reports.

A fool and his aunty can go on the net and make these comparison's for themselves, Why then can not our egotistical dumbells do the same?

Simple Answer-Their Civil Service Masters Dont Want their own particular Caviar train derailed.

Fantasy Island has to cut it's cloth accordingly, but as yet is showing no signs of doing so.

Bugger me "Spuds and Herring again mam"

Oh! "Sorry Son No" we have not even got that option.

If all this is actually happening? Why are not we all equally sharing the pain.

[Lost Login]

It still comes back to two basic questions:

 

1. Why should a vehicle and passenger service be cross - subsidized by the containerized freight business? The effect of that is to make it more expensive to do business on the IOM. If the passenger and vehicle service needs to be subsidized as an essential service then why not ring fence that part of the business and let central govt provide additional funds directly out of taxation ?

 

They do not have to be cross subsidised, the alternative is as you say Government subsidy or presumably higher fares and fewer services. Which is preferable? Well in the past we have gone down the cross subsidy route with the User Agreement presumably in place to provide a virtual monopoly so that the higher rates could be charged. Is it the right option? Maybe not but I doubt Joe public would be in favour of higher fares or subsidies out of tax

 

 

2. What level of profit is sustainable ?

 

How long is a piece of string? I think a more relevant question is what profit is required to persuade a company to run and invest in each section of the route/service

 

We know there is a profit to be made on running the route. The problem appears to be that whilst all elements are not profitable as an Island all are probably required. The question is how do we best ensure that those unprofitable services are provided as market forces will not ensure alone

[nelwd]

I think that we have to face up to the fact that the Steam Packet will have to save money if they are to stay in business if Mezeron continue. (Which I hope they do) For what it is worth here are my suggestions as to how they could do so.

 

Do we honestly need 2 return sailings a day in the middle of winter? If Mezeron are bringing more of the freight in, would it greatly hurt the public if they scrapped the 20.15 / 02.15 sailing on say a Tuesday night and Thursday night? This would still allow people to get away with their car on a Friday night and comeback on the early hours of Monday in time for work etc.

 

It has been stated many times that moving people costs more money that freight. (Extra staff etc) Well why not offer people a cheaper ticket in return for staying in their car on the upper deck of the Ben. If they are on the upper car deck only then in the event of an incident they are not trapped below deck. Some re-arrangements for access to life boats might be needed but how much would that cost? One crew member might be needed to patrol the deck to check people are not being stupid, using stoves etc. If people want shops, food comfortable seats etc let them pay more for it. Access to toilets would be needed but again this need not cost a fortune to put in. I for one would actually prefer to stay in my car. You have to do it in the Chunnel, so I don’t see any H&S reason why you can’t.

 

Do we need bars / shops café etc? Personally I have only ever bought the odd coffee and this could easily be served from either a vending machine or small one or two manned self service café. Get rid of the restaurant and put more seats in instead, thus allowing you to either get more on board, or alternatively use a smaller and cheaper to run boat.

 

Put all the catering out to tender and insist on a minimum staffing level so that the Steam Packet need to employ less staff.

 

Charge more for the trip to Liverpool. It is further to go, so must cost more in fuel etc. What is wrong with charging more for travelling further. The airlines charge you more to fly to Birmingham than Liverpool after all.

 

Please don’t take this as ways for the Steam Packet to put their prices up, it is intended as ways for them to save money and hopefully lower prices. (I know that will never happen but…)

[Monkey boy]

Sorry I digress, kevster it's from Caen - Pompey

 

Well they can afford to do it cheap because they carry a lot more frieght that the SP and as has been mentioned, the profits from freight subsidise the passenger fares.

 

People are expensive to move in ferries. They want space, bars, shops, restaurants, and so on. You also need a lot more crew members to look after them. Freight on the other hand is cheap and easy to move. It uses the available space efficiently and doesn't need pampering en route.

 

I dont recall EVER being pampered on a SP crossing, I remember being loaded into a single large room with babies crying, drunks arguing, old ppl vomiting, with the only chance of escape being the open deck in high winds, driving rain and then being told i cannot smoke because it might set a metal boat on fire.

 

Fuck SP, fuck them in their stupid asses, 36% profit following a couple of years ago of 51% profit; they have been robbing us blind for years, and i hope they get royally fucked.

 

I would sooner go to the UK inside a Mezeron container than pay SP another penny for their overpriced and piss poor service.

I think you've summed up the situation pretty well

[ans]

People are expensive to move in ferries. They want space, bars, shops, restaurants, and so on.

 

Err, I don't. I'm not alone either. I want to be transported from A to B, on time, safely and reliably. That's pretty much it. If I want a snack, I'll take it with me from home. If I want a drink, they can put a vending machine in.

 

I don't want a full cooked meal (at those prices), I dont want a shop full of tatty shite and I don't really see why a bar is such an automatic inclusion on a passenger ferry. Seriously, you can't manage a four hour crossing without a beer?

 

As suggested above, I'd happily sit in my car if I had one with me, and I'd be more than happy to sit on any old seat. With all the shit shops and bars pulled out, there would be loads of room for more so everyone can sit down.

 

It's not a pleasure cruise, it's a mode of transport.

[Twitch]

People are expensive to move in ferries. They want space, bars, shops, restaurants, and so on.

 

Err, I don't. I'm not alone either. I want to be transported from A to B, on time, safely and reliably. That's pretty much it. If I want a snack, I'll take it with me from home. If I want a drink, they can put a vending machine in.

 

I don't want a full cooked meal (at those prices), I dont want a shop full of tatty shite and I don't really see why a bar is such an automatic inclusion on a passenger ferry. Seriously, you can't manage a four hour crossing without a beer?

 

As suggested above, I'd happily sit in my car if I had one with me, and I'd be more than happy to sit on any old seat. With all the shit shops and bars pulled out, there would be loads of room for more so everyone can sit down.

 

It's not a pleasure cruise, it's a mode of transport.

 

 

i.e. like any Steam Packet sailing up to around 1985.

[pongo]

People are expensive to move in ferries. They want space, bars, shops, restaurants, and so on.

 

Err, I don't. I'm not alone either. I want to be transported from A to B, on time, safely and reliably. That's pretty much it. If I want a snack, I'll take it with me from home. If I want a drink, they can put a vending machine in.

 

I don't want a full cooked meal (at those prices), I dont want a shop full of tatty shite and I don't really see why a bar is such an automatic inclusion on a passenger ferry. Seriously, you can't manage a four hour crossing without a beer?

 

As suggested above, I'd happily sit in my car if I had one with me, and I'd be more than happy to sit on any old seat. With all the shit shops and bars pulled out, there would be loads of room for more so everyone can sit down.

 

It's not a pleasure cruise, it's a mode of transport.

 

To be fair, they probably make a bit of money back on the extras - 1st Class lounges, food etc. It probably helps fund the people who bring their own sandwiches.

 

If not there would not be any reason to do it.

[Lost Login]

Do we need bars / shops café etc?

No we do not need but I presume they make money or the Steam Packet and most other ferry companies would not be operating them!

[Bobbie Bobster]

Well why not offer people a cheaper ticket in return for staying in their car on the upper deck of the Ben.

Contravenes SOLAS regulations in at least half a dozen ways.

 

Do we honestly need 2 return sailings a day in the middle of winter? If Mezeron are bringing more of the freight in, would it greatly hurt the public if they scrapped the 20.15 / 02.15 sailing on say a Tuesday night and Thursday night?

You still have most of the staff costs (apart from contract workers), depreciation of fixed assets and other indirect costs. You save on the fuel but the break even point is probably quite a low load factor. Also, I may be wrong on this, but aren't some of these night sailings designated for handling HAZMAT, which would mean reducing capacity significantly on the remaining sailings.

 

Do we need bars / shops café etc?

They're a profit centre. Prices would be even higher without them. (ETA: d'oh!)

Edited November 2, 2010 by Bobbie Bobster

[nelwd]

Well why not offer people a cheaper ticket in return for staying in their car on the upper deck of the Ben.

Contravenes SOLAS regulations in at least half a dozen ways.

 

I am sure it does, but not sure why. Why are you in more danger sat in your car on the upper deck of the Ben, which is open to the sea, has a PA installed etc for safety announcments etc than you are sat on the top outside passenger deck? As I said only the upper vehicle deck, and with changed arrangemnets for access to life boats / life jackets etc. Whilst I am sure it is illegal, I am just not sure why it was made so.

[nelwd]

You still have most of the staff costs (apart from contract workers),

 

 

Why would you still have staff costs? If two or three night sailings are scrapped for good, then surely you would either make some staff redundant (if we are honest none of us want that but I feel it is quite likely) or hope for staff reduction through natural wastage or alter staff contracts to reduce their number of weekly hours. I realise this is going to effect jobs and am not in favour of staff cuts, but surely some is better than all if it went bankrupt.

[Amadeus]

Well why not offer people a cheaper ticket in return for staying in their car on the upper deck of the Ben. If they are on the upper car deck only then in the event of an incident they are not trapped below deck. Some re-arrangements for access to life boats might be needed but how much would that cost? One crew member might be needed to patrol the deck to check people are not being stupid, using stoves etc. If people want shops, food comfortable seats etc let them pay more for it. Access to toilets would be needed but again this need not cost a fortune to put in. I for one would actually prefer to stay in my car. You have to do it in the Chunnel, so I don’t see any H&S reason why you can’t.

Try putting that one to the MCA

 

One big wave and you won't need a lifeboat - assuming your car floats. Not even starting on cars and trucks crashing into each other, people falling around on a dark car deck at night, breaking their legs while stumbling over chains, or simply falling overboard.

 

Not a chance in hell.

 

Plus, the number of crew required depends on the number of passengers on board. IIRC, back when little Amadeus was yodeling around onboard the luvely seacat isle of man, we needed 22 crew for a full load of 516 passengers (SOLAS regulations, etc) - regardless of what these passengers are doing or where they happen to be. Crew is your biggest expense, despite the fact that pay levels at the racket are low unless you're one of the ones attending board meetings.

 

Do we need bars / shops café etc? Personally I have only ever bought the odd coffee and this could easily be served from either a vending machine or small one or two manned self service café. Get rid of the restaurant and put more seats in instead, thus allowing you to either get more on board, or alternatively use a smaller and cheaper to run boat.

Food and drink is where you recoup your costs and put those costly crew members that you have to have onboard (see above) to good work. Again, iirc, a full English breakfast that we sold for 5.99 back then (been a few years) had a cost price of 99p. Kerching.

 

As it stands, the racket is buggered. Doehle isn't a small fish they could price out of the market by running losses for a couple of years. They've got oomph. Loads of it. Racket's value will now drop, shareholders get nervous, place is eventually sold to....you can guess who

 

Vorsprung durch Mitdenken