shipsofmann Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I agree with most of the above. Anyone who gives the matter any thought at all should realise that what Mark Woodward has said is absolutely correct. Some of the comments on this thread are amazing - nonsense about monorails, insulting remarks about Mark Woodward which really are offensive and utterly childish... Some of the ill-informed critics of the IOMSPCo should look back to 1978 and look at what happened then.In the circumstances the IOMSPCo has been giving a very good service especially from the IOM (I could take issue with lack of day trips TO the IOM but that is for another day)and they have been well above the User Agreement requirements so I will echo..."Be careful what you wish for..." AJS Isn't Ships of Mann the company house magazine available on board? No, Ships of Mann is not the Company House magazine. It is an independent publication which deals with the Steam Packet in particular but also other Manx, Did Woody tell you what to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipsofmann Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Sorry, most of my first reply to this post got lost in cyberspace! No Ships of Mann is not the Company House magazine. It is an independent publication, published twice a year, and is for those interested in the Steam Packet in particular (history and present day) and other Manx, Irish Sea and West Coast shipping in general. It has been publishing for over 10 years and initially one of its major remits was to report on the efforts to preserve the Manxman which in fact it still does - see the current issue. It does however generally support the Isle of Man Steam Packet Company and sympathises with its position. Mark Woodward certainly did not tell us what to say (although we agree with him)- I would think he has many more things to worry about than that! AJS I agree with most of the above. Anyone who gives the matter any thought at all should realise that what Mark Woodward has said is absolutely correct. Some of the comments on this thread are amazing - nonsense about monorails, insulting remarks about Mark Woodward which really are offensive and utterly childish... Some of the ill-informed critics of the IOMSPCo should look back to 1978 and look at what happened then.In the circumstances the IOMSPCo has been giving a very good service especially from the IOM (I could take issue with lack of day trips TO the IOM but that is for another day)and they have been well above the User Agreement requirements so I will echo..."Be careful what you wish for..." AJS Isn't Ships of Mann the company house magazine available on board? Did Woody tell you what to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentience Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 the UA on it's existing terms, if those terms did not provide full exclusivity for all "containerised" freight traffic through Douglas (or any other Manx port for that matter), which it is obvious that it didn't. And why should it ? Any vessel which meets international port authority and other regulatory standards in general should be allowed to operate. There should be a free market. The IOM is supposed to be all about freedom and opportunity. 'Freedom to flourish', but only for the chosen few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Anyone who gives the matter any thought at all should realise that what Mark Woodward has said is absolutely correct. Shipsofmann could you summarise from your position how you see the situation? You say that everything Mark Woodward says is absolutely correct. The core of Mr Woodward's public comments seems to be: It is a disaster that Merezon have been contracted to by companies such as Tesco and Shoprite to ship containers for them. That the IOMSPC has been using its freight rate charges to subsidise passenger fares. To get back freight traffic the IOMSPC would need to increase passenger fares. There are limits on fare increases imposed through the UA. The IOMSPC might have to reduce service to the minimum required under the UA (which has been sumarised earlier on the thread by John Wright) Based on your knowledge of the IOMSPC and irish Sea shipping conditions may I ask you: Would it be a 'disaster' if the IOMSPC reduced its services down to the level outlined in the UA as that level seems to be quite high? Could it save money if the IOMSPC concentrated on one port in the UK and one in Ireland to increase its vessel utilisation figures (I believe Mr Woodward said last year that this was below 40%)? Could the fleet be rationalised (sell off Snaefell?) if the IOMSPC reduced services to UA levels in conjunction with the above port concentration? Would this reduce operating and maintenance costs? Is the fleet appropriately balanced for reliable service on the Irish Sea (and given the recurring mechanical problems with the fastcraft reported by Mr Woodward on his blog)? Does the IOMSPC really need to renegotiate the UA or can it increase the 'discount' fares. I understood that the the price control on fares within the UA relate specifically to the standard fares not the discounted ones - so discount fares could be altered without recourse to changing the UA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manx1975 Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Take it from someone who knows these are not Merezon customers Tesco/Shoprite etc they are Graylaw Freight Group's. Merezon is owned by Dohle they are just the shipping bit of the process from collection through to delivery with the new container service is the brain child of Graylaw Freight Group! They deserve our support to finally sort the monopoly of the SPC! And as for foreign workers Graylaw Freight Group and Mezeron are based on the island and have Manx people working for them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localyokel Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) I agree with most of the above. Anyone who gives the matter any thought at all should realise that what Mark Woodward has said is absolutely correct. Some of the comments on this thread are amazing - nonsense about monorails, insulting remarks about Mark Woodward which really are offensive and utterly childish... Well I tell you something when it comes to your support of Woodward & Co. Any business that makes its profit from a very narrow range of contracts (Tesco, Shoprite, M & S etc) deserves all it gets if its also using those key accounts to cross subsidise other supposedly loss making services to keep it in business. Its lunacy in any business to be so reliant on a small number of big value clients and the only reason they have done this is pure arrogance brought about by the position it thought it was in under the UA (ie, a monopoly that thought its clients had nowhere else to go). It seems to me that Mezeron actually recognises its part of the food chain in that its not a monopoly and has to compete on price and service whereas the SPC has simply sat growing fat off a pretty mediocre service for years. The fact that all its debt is up for renegotiation this month can't be a coincidence either. I'm sure the management team must be bricking it, and they are right to think that way as really its their fault that the company is in the position it finds itself in now with over £200m of debt to service that, if the original reports were true, its not even repaying. Their current business model is a crock and their clients are holding all the cards from what I can see and they have voted with their feet. It does make you wonder who would be willing to extend the £200m line of credit in its current position as its hardly looking a good risk. Edited November 3, 2010 by localyokel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITV Granada IOM Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Freight operator John Quaye from Manx Independent Carriers on the Steam Packet and its new competition http://www.manxtube.com/video/2384/Freight-user Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Runner Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I suppose Mezzeron are pretty pleased. They have gained a market share that did'nt exist before for them, thats just business. Hopefully increased friegt for them will mean taking on more staff! As for the IOMSP they have been undercut and from what I gather they have only themselves to blame for being so greedy. The 'But' means however thay they now find themselves in a situation where thier shareholders and parent companies will be asking all sorts of awkward questions, namely how will you make up the shortfall? Hmmm, 2 choices, increase fares overall or cut services, or both. Long and short is we are all going to suffer financially on the domestic side, we travel accross quite a lot and actually have a car on the other side as its cheaper, not the answer for everyone for several reasons but it works for us. Mannanin cost over £1m just to sail it from OZ, apparently the SP were amazed at the fuel costs! Come on if you got a ferrari would you be amazed that it only did 12MPG? No you would know that already and factored it in. The refit went over budget by 40% and the original purchase cost was 000's% over the only other interested party, why? the seller was an offshoot company of McQuarie, so effectivly they sold it to themselves but just moved the debt! Who is paying for that? Oh, answered that one already! I also believe that the SP use the User Agreement as an 'income' tool for re-establishing debt and borrowing from the banks, not sure how that works? In closing, we are f****d If IOMSP are buying ships at vastly inflated prices that can only mean one thing, their actual profit will be far in excess of the stated 30%+ If part of the UA allows the IOM Gov to look at their books I would say they spend most of their time playing with the numbers to keep the margin artificially low. I would in their shoes and I would also plead poverty when something changed that lowered the massive cash generator. Good riddance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Freight operator John Quaye from Manx Independent Carriers on the Steam Packet and its new competition http://www.manxtube.com/video/2384/Freight-user Are you going to interview anyone from the counter side of the argument ? So far only the govt/UA/McQuarrie side seems to represented. Is it just that the other sides are unavailable ? Equally - what about saying - "you know well actually is this really anything like Manx Line vs IOMSPCo 30 years ago ?" and then noting all some of the very obvious significant differences. Like the fact that in those days there was no UA. Like the fact that in those days the passenger side was more significant and there was still some tourism. Like the fact that in those days there was very very much less container traffic. (In those days crates of fruit and veg used to still be brought onto the boats by porters). Lots of people have been arguing for a long time that the UA was not a sustainable model. What about exploring that ? What about exploring the question of whether it really makes sense for freight to subsidise passenger services ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acorn Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I agree with most of the above. Anyone who gives the matter any thought at all should realise that what Mark Woodward has said is absolutely correct. Some of the comments on this thread are amazing - nonsense about monorails, insulting remarks about Mark Woodward which really are offensive and utterly childish... Some of the ill-informed critics of the IOMSPCo should look back to 1978 and look at what happened then.In the circumstances the IOMSPCo has been giving a very good service especially from the IOM (I could take issue with lack of day trips TO the IOM but that is for another day)and they have been well above the User Agreement requirements so I will echo..."Be careful what you wish for..." AJS Isn't Ships of Mann the company house magazine available on board? No, Ships of Mann is not the Company House magazine. It is an independent publication which deals with the Steam Packet in particular but also other Manx, Did Woody tell you what to say? So to recap you run a magazine which is independent, nonetheless it seems to rely on the Steam Packet for much of it's content and the company sells your magazine on board it's vessels, making the goodwill of the company rather crucial for the magazine's financial success and content I'd guess. Your business sounds a bit like the SP with all it's eggs in one basket, if this is your magazine's website:- http://www.shipsofmann.org.uk It certainly seems rather Steam Packet centric. From your comments highlighted above, it appears you also share Woodward's arrogance and disdain for anybody with the temerity to suggest that the Steam Packet is anything but wonderful. Also nobody here needs a Liverpool based publisher to lecture us about events in 1978. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 The fact that Graylaw can attain such huge savings by switching to Mezeron, despite the cost of having to crane containers on and off, tells a bit of a tale in itself! Mezeron will not be doing this out of any altruistic notion. They must be making a profit worth having so the question is, how much have we been ripped off over the years? Saying that freight subsidises the passenger service is a red herring. The ships are dual purpose, sail with both freight and passengers, therefore the passenger service is a profit centre which is in addition to the freight profit! The last thing I want to see is the end of the IOMSPCo. but they have ignored all the warnings for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
localyokel Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) Who is paying for that? Oh, answered that one already! I also believe that the SP use the User Agreement as an 'income' tool for re-establishing debt and borrowing from the banks, not sure how that works? I would agree with that. Its effectively masquerading as a government guarantee of income to service the debt pool and from a AAA rated Government to boot - so lets just hive off the debt into one place as the interest is likely to be cheaper with an AAA rated 'promise' to underwrite the servicing income stuck over the top. Might look a bit shitty now though if you haven't got any high paying customers to service the payments. Edited November 3, 2010 by localyokel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Runner Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 The fact that Graylaw can attain such huge savings by switching to Mezeron, despite the cost of having to crane containers on and off, tells a bit of a tale in itself! Mezeron will not be doing this out of any altruistic notion. They must be making a profit worth having so the question is, how much have we been ripped off over the years? Saying that freight subsidises the passenger service is a red herring. The ships are dual purpose, sail with both freight and passengers, therefore the passenger service is a profit centre which is in addition to the freight profit! The last thing I want to see is the end of the IOMSPCo. but they have ignored all the warnings for years. Totally agree, red herring about the cross subsidy, as I said profit margins will be kept artificially low to screw every last penny out of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) Freight operator John Quaye from Manx Independent Carriers on the Steam Packet and its new competition http://www.manxtube.com/video/2384/Freight-user I love the way you managed to shoot a vid that could land the owner a telling off from the H&S Edited November 3, 2010 by gazza Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilf_uk Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Freight operator John Quaye from Manx Independent Carriers on the Steam Packet and its new competition http://www.manxtube.com/video/2384/Freight-user Are you going to interview anyone from the counter side of the argument ? So far only the govt/UA/McQuarrie side seems to represented. Is it just that the other sides are unavailable ? Equally - what about saying - "you know well actually is this really anything like Manx Line vs IOMSPCo 30 years ago ?" and then noting all some of the very obvious significant differences. Like the fact that in those days there was no UA. Like the fact that in those days the passenger side was more significant and there was still some tourism. Like the fact that in those days there was very very much less container traffic. (In those days crates of fruit and veg used to still be brought onto the boats by porters). Lots of people have been arguing for a long time that the UA was not a sustainable model. What about exploring that ? What about exploring the question of whether it really makes sense for freight to subsidise passenger services ? I wonder if he has asked for an interview, perhaps, but if I was them I wouldn't be giving one. Why would they? They don't need to get their point across, and MW & SPCo is digging a big enough hole for themselves, and the Island has a lot of anti-SPCo sentiment anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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