Mezeron & Steam Packet Master Thread

[gazza]

Freight operator John Quaye from Manx Independent Carriers on the Steam Packet and its new competition

 

http://www.manxtube.com/video/2384/Freight-user

 

Are you going to interview anyone from the counter side of the argument ? So far only the govt/UA/McQuarrie side seems to represented. Is it just that the other sides are unavailable ?

 

Equally - what about saying - "you know well actually is this really anything like Manx Line vs IOMSPCo 30 years ago ?" and then noting all some of the very obvious significant differences. Like the fact that in those days there was no UA. Like the fact that in those days the passenger side was more significant and there was still some tourism. Like the fact that in those days there was very very much less container traffic. (In those days crates of fruit and veg used to still be brought onto the boats by porters).

 

Lots of people have been arguing for a long time that the UA was not a sustainable model. What about exploring that ? What about exploring the question of whether it really makes sense for freight to subsidise passenger services ?

 

I wonder if he has asked for an interview, perhaps, but if I was them I wouldn't be giving one. Why would they? They don't need to get their point across, and MW & SPCo is digging a big enough hole for themselves, and the Island has a lot of anti-SPCo sentiment anyway!

 

Its just a hate campaign, what ever way you look at it, the SP are trying to bully mezeron in to a defeat. or at least try and make it worse.

When i would say all its done has made most people who prob did not know mezeron shipped into douglas and could bring things over this way a chace to ring them up and see if they can get a better deal.

 

No press is bad press so they say

[manxman8180]

I think I can solve the SPC problems.

 

Just sit back and wait for the times that the charter boat doesn't sail, for weather or tech reasons and the phone call from Graylaw:

 

Graylaw: "Hi, we need to ship 20 trailers tonight."

 

SP: "OK that will be £100k please......"

 

For all their problems, the BMC has been pretty bullet proof (once it settled in) and reliability is worth a lot, especially with perishables. I recall in previous years when boats such as the Dart were chartered to cover the refit periods, that they were not capable of sailing in the conditions that the BMC could.

 

Alternatively the SP could go direct to Tesco and negotiate directly with them, offering them rock bottom prices and they would soon 'jump ship'. Tesco will have no allegiance to Graylaw / Mezeron. In fact do Tesco have any morals at all?

 

And don't kid yourselves that Graylaw is a 'local' company. Of course they have an operation here, but their roots are firmly in Skelmersdale.

 

I think that there may actually be enough room for two operators, perhaps more, but they must have to operate on an equal basis (in terms of obligations to the Island). This is where I have a hint (just a teeny bit) of sympathy for the position of Woodward.

 

So you either have 'Harbour' user agreement which grants access to freight provision in return for an agreed level of passenger services (even if these are not in themselves commercially viable), or you have a completely 'open' port and let everyone crack on.

 

Any 'savings' made by the hauliers or their customers (Tesco et al) are not going to be passed on to Joe public, so the winners will be the big players. Your money will just end up in someone elses pocket.

[gilf_uk]

Alternatively the SP could go direct to Tesco and negotiate directly with them, offering them rock bottom prices and they would soon 'jump ship'. Tesco will have no allegiance to Graylaw / Mezeron.

 

I think you'll find, it was SPCo going direct to Tesco and Shoprite in the first instance that landed them in this mess!

[manxman8180]

Although that could be pub gossip......

 

If it were the case, they should do it again, just cheaper.

 

Also, I think 'this mess' has been caused by the SP just pushing the prices and other dealings with Graylaw too far. Everyone harps on about the prices being related to the over inflated price paid for the Company by a variety of recent 'owners'.

 

However, the freight rates have been extortionate since the only thing remotely Australian connected with the boats was a type of Lager in the bar.

[Blade Runner]

Why cant people get their heads around the fact that the Island COULD now support an open seas market!

 

It just ain't like the 80s anymore over here.

 

Bring on an open market and competition to the benefit of the traveling passenger.

 

ETA we like to bleat on here about the state of the Islands economy, BUT it has NOT gone into recession and it is still expanding.

 

If I could raise the cost of a ferry I would buy one and chance my arm at the moment especially as the IOMSP are declaring 30+% margins which will be a lot lower than they actually are.

 

License to print money, I would say, at the moment, even with the container shipping loss of trade.

[ThankU]

Mezeron are also shiping Vans, motor homes and cars, could help the cheap flight companies.

[manxman8180]

It just ain't like the 80s anymore over here.

Well, at least not for another couple of years.....

 

[manxman8180]

Mezeron are also shiping Vans, motor homes and cars,

In fairness, they always have.

[ThankU]

Mezeron are also shiping Vans, motor homes and cars,

In fairness, they always have.

 

 

True,but now from Douglas.

 

7mt motor home on IOMSP + 2 passengers £246 same truck on Channel Tunnel + 4 passengers £59, DFDS ferries to Dunkirk £13, LD lines Ostend £19, all return fares ?????

[manxman8180]

It would be OK if you were just relocating a vehicle, but a bit of a pain in the arse if you were actually going on a trip.

 

Even if it were only £100 on Mezeron, would you actually save any time or money? (Taxis, flights etc?)

 

It is the loss of Tesco etc which will have any consequence, an odd Motorhome or car will be of little concern.

[Blade Runner]

It just ain't like the 80s anymore over here.

 

ETA apart from of the Mullet haircuts sported in Ramsey!

[ThankU]

Mezeron boat docked in Douglas at the weekend with a load of Stobart containers on Board, Look out local Hauliers, Big Eddies coming, Oh i forgot Stobarts are Tacos prefered hauliers

Edited November 3, 2010 by ThankU

[shipsofmann]

 

 

 

I agree with most of the above. Anyone who gives the matter any thought at all should realise that what Mark Woodward has said is absolutely correct. Some of the comments on this thread are amazing - nonsense about monorails, insulting remarks about Mark Woodward which really are offensive and utterly childish...

Some of the ill-informed critics of the IOMSPCo should look back to 1978 and look at what happened then.In the circumstances the IOMSPCo has been giving a very good service especially from the IOM (I could take issue with lack of day trips TO the IOM but that is for another day)and they have been well above the User Agreement requirements so I will echo..."Be careful what you wish for..."

AJS

 

 

Isn't Ships of Mann the company house magazine available on board?

 

No, Ships of Mann is not the Company House magazine. It is an independent publication which deals with the Steam Packet in particular but also other Manx,

 

Did Woody tell you what to say?

 

 

So to recap you run a magazine which is independent, nonetheless it seems to rely on the Steam Packet for much of it's content and the company sells your magazine on board it's vessels, making the goodwill of the company rather crucial for the magazine's financial success and content I'd guess. Your business sounds a bit like the SP with all it's eggs in one basket, if this is your magazine's website:-

 

http://www.shipsofmann.org.uk

 

It certainly seems rather Steam Packet centric.

 

 

From your comments highlighted above, it appears you also share Woodward's arrogance and disdain for anybody with the temerity to suggest that the Steam Packet is anything but wonderful. Also nobody here needs a Liverpool based publisher to lecture us about events in 1978.

 

Sorry you feel like that. The magazine does have a large content based on the heritage and history of the Steam Packet but it also covers present day events and it covers other aspects of Manx and other Irish Sea shipping as well.The web site tends just to concentrate on the Steam Packet because of band width limitations and there is a technical issue with it at the moment which has prevented it being updated this month.It is a shipping enthusiasts magazine.However I make no secret of the fact that we do support the Steam Packet and sympathise with its point of view and I think we are entitled to do that.

I hope I do not appear arrogant and disdainful of anyone elses point of view because of that.Nothing could be further from the truth. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that does include me as well.But some of the offensive language and aggressive tone have not really added to an informed debate on this forum.

As for being Liverpool based that is because of circumstances. When the magazine started 10 years ago only the editorial side was based in Liverpool - everything else was based in the Isle of Man. However the Manx based partner in the magazine sadly passed away in 2004 and so everything had to be concentrated in Liverpool from then on.

Liverpool is the other end of the main service provided by the Steam Packet (and now Mezeron!) from Douglas. For those of us who regularly visit the Isle of Man and have done so for over half a century, the IOMSPCo and the events surrounding it are of great interest. I am sure you are not suggesting only Manx residents are entitled to a view?

Best Regards

AJS

[Blade Runner]

If I were you, Shipsofmann, and your main source of income for your business looked under threat I too would be posting like you are.

 

That is human nature and anybody that slags you for trying to support your source of income is daft.

[P.K.]

I hope I do not appear arrogant and disdainful of anyone elses point of view because of that.Nothing could be further from the truth. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that does include me as well. But some of the offensive language and aggressive tone have not really added to an informed debate on this forum.

 

Well I have to agree with you AJS. So many posts are about what would happen if the SP was priced out and ceased trading and the actions Tynwald could take to alleviate the situation and all the rest of it.

 

So please add to an informed debate to wit: clearly the SP have lost some business, which will hurt their bottom line. Now I've attended lots of pricing meetings but only to keep the Marketeers on Planet Earth. Everyone is in business to make a profit and they want to make the biggest profit they can. So Mr Woodward and his Merry Men (you included) will have estimated the highest leverage they think the (once captive) market will sustain. Now clearly the parameters have changed. I have noticed the missing SP subtext "We will have to take action because we are now getting less profit than we are used to, therefore we will try all sorts to return our business to the previous profit margin" and so on...

 

So my question to you how much profit margin have you lost and when does it turn negative i.e. not worth doing?

 

Believe me knowing those figures would really add to the "informed debate" you are so keen on...