Mezeron & Steam Packet Master Thread

[thesultanofsheight]

Oh come on. It may have the union's name on it looks like its pure political jerrymandering

 

Gerrymandering is when an electoral boundary or national border is drawn so as to secure and maintain a political and electoral majority for one particular faction or interest group - normally based on ethnicity, social class, religion etc ..

 

I do have google ...

 

So in what sense is it gerrymandering ?

 

And is what sense are you holding yourself up as Mr Pedantic tonight?

 

I am not being pedantic. I am asking a straight question. I am trying to understand what you mean by gerrymandering in this context.

 

If you read further into the Wiki article you consulted (you only cut and paste the first para in your post).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

 

It goes on to say that one of the aims of gerrymandering is to maximize the effect of supporters' votes and to minimize the effect of opponents' votes - ie, in this situation to gain votes or support for the SPC as contrasted to votes or support for Tesco's.

 

That, my friend, points out the fact that you are being pedantic based on limited information. I spelt it wrong as well. Would you like to pick me up on that too.

Edited November 6, 2010 by thesultanofsheight

[Tempus Fugit]

 

you hit the nailon the head, I know the reason from lookimg at the schedule, and you know, but I was just waiting for someone to shoot their mouth off

 

 

No doubt it will happen... but i'd still like to know the real reason

 

it was due a saturday night 'stopover' although it isn't shown on the pdf schedule (oversight ?), it's the usual weekend and there isn't a sailing shown on the day's sailings on the website

[pongo]

Oh come on. It may have the union's name on it looks like its pure political jerrymandering

 

Gerrymandering is when an electoral boundary or national border is drawn so as to secure and maintain a political and electoral majority for one particular faction or interest group - normally based on ethnicity, social class, religion etc ..

 

I do have google ...

 

So in what sense is it gerrymandering ?

 

And is what sense are you holding yourself up as Mr Pedantic tonight?

 

I am not being pedantic. I am asking a straight question. I am trying to understand what you mean by gerrymandering in this context.

 

If you read further into the Wiki article you consulted (you only cut and pasted the first para in your post).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

 

It goes on to say that one of the aims of gerrymandering is to maximize the effect of supporters' votes and to minimize the effect of opponents' votes - ie, in this situation to gain votes or support for the SPC as contracted to votes or support for Tesco's.

 

That, my friend, points out the fact that you are being pedantic based on limited information. I spelled it wrong as well. Would you like to pick me up on that too.

 

I know what the word means without looking at wikipedia thanks. (We did Irish history at school)

 

Gerrymandering is certainly about trying to win votes for an idea or point of view - but trying to win support for an idea or point of view is not necessarily gerrymandering. Not unless it involves artificially drawing a border or electoral boundary.

 

In what sense do you believe that this is gerrymandering ?

[Snaipyr]

"Also this thing of them sailing from Dublin and Belfast is just daft. It's maximum an hour and a halfs drive from one to the other now so sailing fro one or other port would be quite sufficent."

 

I agree, and as it takes nearly as long to get out of Dublin as it does to drive all round the IOM I'd be happy for them to concentrate on Belfast.

[Andy730]

 

you hit the nailon the head, I know the reason from lookimg at the schedule, and you know, but I was just waiting for someone to shoot their mouth off

 

 

No doubt it will happen... but i'd still like to know the real reason

 

it was due a saturday night 'stopover' although it isn't shown on the pdf schedule (oversight ?), it's the usual weekend and there isn't a sailing shown on the day's sailings on the website

 

Yes, i understand that... But... WHY?

 

Simply wanting a day off os once choice.

Maintenance is another reason.

Lack of trade another..

[Sean South]

Oh come on. It may have the union's name on it looks like its pure political jerrymandering

 

Gerrymandering is when an electoral boundary or national border is drawn so as to secure and maintain a political and electoral majority for one particular faction or interest group - normally based on ethnicity, social class, religion etc ..

Y A W N !!!

 

"Also this thing of them sailing from Dublin and Belfast is just daft. It's maximum an hour and a halfs drive from one to the other now so sailing fro one or other port would be quite sufficent."

 

I agree, and as it takes nearly as long to get out of Dublin as it does to drive all round the IOM I'd be happy for them to concentrate on Belfast.

Really? you've gone from the Port via the tunnel to the M50 and it's taken you how long? Shouldn't be more than about 15 minutes maximum.... Can you get out of Belfast anywhere near as quick as that? I very much doubt it but please do enlighten us.

[Snaipyr]

I was in my juggernaut at the time and it wouldn't fit in the tunnel.

[Sean South]

I was in my juggernaut at the time and it wouldn't fit in the tunnel.

Ah come on. It came off a ferry but wouldn't fit in the tunnel? How high is it ffs?

[Tempus Fugit]

 

you hit the nailon the head, I know the reason from lookimg at the schedule, and you know, but I was just waiting for someone to shoot their mouth off

 

 

No doubt it will happen... but i'd still like to know the real reason

 

it was due a saturday night 'stopover' although it isn't shown on the pdf schedule (oversight ?), it's the usual weekend and there isn't a sailing shown on the day's sailings on the website

 

Yes, i understand that... But... WHY?

 

Simply wanting a day off os once choice.

Maintenance is another reason.

Lack of trade another..

 

as I understand it it is just monthly maintenance as you would do on your car if it was running day in-day out and you wanted to keep it running like clockwork

I assume they need to do oil changes on the engines and fix other snags which are bound to crop up every month and can't be done whilst in service

(next night in looks like sat 4th December)

[Andy730]

 

as I understand it it is just monthly maintenance as you would do on your car if it was running day in-day out and you wanted to keep it running like clockwork

I assume they need to do oil changes on the engines and fix other snags which are bound to crop up every month and can't be done whilst in service

(next night in looks like sat 4th December)

 

 

Maintenance does seem to fit the bill then. Although it wouldn't be oil change... These type of engines use 'hours run' to base when the next change is due, and I’d hazard a guess that it would be in the region of every 12,000 hours, give or take a little. This is based on the engine burning an amount as it runs, and thus a fresh 'top up' on a regular basis is required, perhaps every day. Oil filters will be duel in line, thus can be changed with the engine running, as will fuel filters.

 

Then there is turbo oil. I'm not too familiar with the Bens Engines, but I’d guess that they'd have separate oil for the turbos, and, if so, a change would be every 1,000 hours or so. So there's a possibility.

 

So, maintenance yes... but I’d like to know what... (Yes, I’m nosey)

[Nosferatu]

 

Maintenance does seem to fit the bill then. Although it wouldn't be oil change... These type of engines use 'hours run' to base when the next change is due, and I’d hazard a guess that it would be in the region of every 12,000 hours, give or take a little. This is based on the engine burning an amount as it runs, and thus a fresh 'top up' on a regular basis is required, perhaps every day. Oil filters will be duel in line, thus can be changed with the engine running, as will fuel filters.

 

Then there is turbo oil. I'm not too familiar with the Bens Engines, but I’d guess that they'd have separate oil for the turbos, and, if so, a change would be every 1,000 hours or so. So there's a possibility.

 

So, maintenance yes... but I’d like to know what... (Yes, I’m nosey)

There's also things like tappet clearance checks , injector changes , crankcase inspections to lump in with the routine maintainance . It could also be for more run of the mill stuff that you can't do with the passengers milling about , ie testing fire hydrants , car deck sprinklers etc . Not all necessarily engine gear , the deckies will have stuff up on the bridge to do as well .

[thesultanofsheight]

Oh come on. It may have the union's name on it looks like its pure political jerrymandering

 

Gerrymandering is when an electoral boundary or national border is drawn so as to secure and maintain a political and electoral majority for one particular faction or interest group - normally based on ethnicity, social class, religion etc ..

 

I do have google ...

 

So in what sense is it gerrymandering ?

 

And is what sense are you holding yourself up as Mr Pedantic tonight?

 

I am not being pedantic. I am asking a straight question. I am trying to understand what you mean by gerrymandering in this context.

 

If you read further into the Wiki article you consulted (you only cut and pasted the first para in your post).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

 

It goes on to say that one of the aims of gerrymandering is to maximize the effect of supporters' votes and to minimize the effect of opponents' votes - ie, in this situation to gain votes or support for the SPC as contracted to votes or support for Tesco's.

 

That, my friend, points out the fact that you are being pedantic based on limited information. I spelled it wrong as well. Would you like to pick me up on that too.

 

I know what the word means without looking at wikipedia thanks. (We did Irish history at school)

 

Gerrymandering is certainly about trying to win votes for an idea or point of view - but trying to win support for an idea or point of view is not necessarily gerrymandering. Not unless it involves artificially drawing a border or electoral boundary.

 

In what sense do you believe that this is gerrymandering ?

 

Sorry I fell asleep part way through responding to you. I really don't see the value of taking this thread off track just to explain that again to you. Thanks.

[Lost Login]

 

Yeah. So they should tear up the user agreement. Allow Mezeron to use the Linkspan. Then the Steampacket can have the highground again in that they can increase their passenger fares and blame it on Mezeron. They can then use, said increase to lower the freight fares to see off Mezeron. You see? That's business as it should be... Comeptitive...

 

I would Reduce the unneccessary sailings immediately.

 

Yes. And I use the SP several times a year to travel home. I, like a lot of potential Irish based customers, would use them more if their sailings were user friendly ie weekend sailings to/from Dublin or Dun Laoire on a Friday and a Sunday/Monday instead of Thursday to Tuesday as it is too long.

 

Bingo. You would do exactlty what those of us concerned about the current position are worried about. You would cut services and raise fares. As I have said previously I do not care about who runs the routes I care about the level of service and cost.

 

It seems odd that you then go on to complain about the lack of or unfriendly sailing times to Ireland at present as these would be the first to go I expect if the SP could do what it wanted.

 

 

The winter sailings were up on the Summer sailings because the Lady came back from charter early October and they launched the Liverpool thursday to Sunday sailings prior to Orry's annual face lift.

 

I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I was purely point out that the lack of a Sea Cat or Lady of Man might skew the summer figures as that is when the extra boats are used as per now. It would not affect the number of winter sailings though as then as now only 1 boat is used.

[cheeky boy]

 

Maintenance does seem to fit the bill then. Although it wouldn't be oil change... These type of engines use 'hours run' to base when the next change is due, and I’d hazard a guess that it would be in the region of every 12,000 hours, give or take a little. This is based on the engine burning an amount as it runs, and thus a fresh 'top up' on a regular basis is required, perhaps every day. Oil filters will be duel in line, thus can be changed with the engine running, as will fuel filters.

 

Then there is turbo oil. I'm not too familiar with the Bens Engines, but I’d guess that they'd have separate oil for the turbos, and, if so, a change would be every 1,000 hours or so. So there's a possibility.

 

So, maintenance yes... but I’d like to know what... (Yes, I’m nosey)

There's also things like tappet clearance checks , injector changes , crankcase inspections to lump in with the routine maintainance . It could also be for more run of the mill stuff that you can't do with the passengers milling about , ie testing fire hydrants , car deck sprinklers etc . Not all necessarily engine gear , the deckies will have stuff up on the bridge to do as well .

 

Whatever it is there's still no papers in yet

[manshimajin]

So you can say for certain what the SP will do with regard to frequency of sailing etc. Seems to be that if and the word is If the SP cut back sailing to only that required by the User agreement it could have a negative impact on Tourism etc. If the SP sell the Snaefell that is potentially three round trips a day not operating during TT which is a few visitors not coming.

Lot Login as I posted above the IOMSPC does not seem to have actually established from the public the frequency of sailings that its passengers/clients believe to be appropriate. Would the changes MW talks about bring down the frequency down to the UA level? If that was the case then the IOMG must believe that this is a reasonable level (and 'appropriate' probably includes a bit of adjusing upwards within the UA targets to get what it wanted).

 

I assume that given the current <40% utilisation figures fewer ships would be good for the IOMSPC - particularly if they could get some capital back for the SNAEFELL. AT TT times don't they already hire tonnage - in which case would the 'potentially 3 round trips a day' at TT time for the SNAEFELL be replaced by a hired vessel which might make better sense than holding on to the S for the whole year to cater for a very short time peridos? Frequencies and the management of frequencies may not be the big ogre that the IOMSPC management are trying to make out?

 

My concern is that everywhere just at the moment there is a lot of panicky Hype (except from Mezeron who have kept quiet). This includes some comments here as well as the comments from MW. Both can be characterised by their abscence of fact and in MW's case by their attempt ot create fear without specificity.

 

Plus one has to say that MW may be over-egging it when he grumbles about foreign crews whilst employing the same himself. 'Not 100% foreign crews' I could agree with but when I have contact with the Baltic State (etc...) employees of the IOMSPC I recognise that the company is happy to employ 'foreigners' when it suits their purse and I personally find these 'foreigners' to be very considerate and courteous - so why try to fear build when you do it yourself?