manxman8180 Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 The IOMSP can Charter in ships and have done for a few years, TT period they normally charter extra ships and at times when the Ben is being in Dock for a refit. There may be a restriction on the SP as to how many charters they can have coming into Douglas. The SP is quite free to charter if it feels it's required and there would be no limit on harbour or linkspan access, however, they are obliged under the UA to invest in new tonnage, therefore, they cannot rely on charters. IIRC it is £20million in new tonnage, which I guess they have achieved with the Manannan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 And im sure if you have something like the UA it would be cheaper in the long run to own the boat than lease it. as you are in it for the long haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxfriend Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 SPC are far from perfect – but is anyone seriously considering the alternative? If we take the SPC out of the equation what is the Island left with? Mezeron may run two ships for a season, and if those ships turn out to be loss leaders Mezeron simply pull out of the run. Who will then ship over your passengers? Special brew or caviar? The main problem is that SPC have been overcharging and making high levels of profit whilst being given a monopoly – surely the whole point in the granting of the monopoly / user agreement was to safeguard a life-line to the Island for freight and passengers at a reasonable cost. SPC where well aware that the customers felt they were overcharging, as detailed in the recent IOM gov UA enquiry, but they choose to ignore this and carry on regardless, and now they are paying the price of 10m lost turnover. Times have changed and this shake up should be a chance for all parties to sit down and re-write the user agreement to the benefit of all parties (Islanders / SPC / Gov) and for the SPC to look at their charging strategies, with smaller profit margins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean South Posted November 9, 2010 Author Share Posted November 9, 2010 Times have changed and this shake up should be a chance for all parties to sit down and re-write the user agreement to the benefit of all parties (Islanders / SPC / Gov) and for the SPC to look at their charging strategies, with smaller profit margins. It's not as simple as that now as the SPCo have now been shown up as extremely vulnerable to even a slight fall in sales/profits. Is it a sound long term service provider to the island? With the exorbitant debt that they are carrying, I wouldn't bet on it. Maybe, as Bill Malarkey intimated, it's time to address the issue once and for all and fix up a long term strategy with (or without) the SPCo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxfriend Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 (edited) Times have changed and this shake up should be a chance for all parties to sit down and re-write the user agreement to the benefit of all parties (Islanders / SPC / Gov) and for the SPC to look at their charging strategies, with smaller profit margins. It's not as simple as that now as the SPCo have now been shown up as extremely vulnerable to even a slight fall in sales/profits. Is it a sound long term service provider to the island? With the exorbitant debt that they are carrying, I wouldn't bet on it. Maybe, as Bill Malarkey intimated, it's time to address the issue once and for all and fix up a long term strategy with (or without) the SPCo.... I agree- if the long term debt they are carrying is true – they are vulnerable and not just to competion, but to financial difficulties. But what is this debt? If they had a YE 08 turnover of £55m and made a profit of £9m (paid £17m dividends so resulted in loss of £8) then surely these accounts have taken the debt into account within the long or short term liabilities? Or am I missing the debt/liability in the accounts? These are the last accounts filed at companies’ house, so I can’t read them for YE 09 yet. Edited November 9, 2010 by manxfriend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 If the debt exists - I just bet it has already been repackaged and sold on by some other part of the group. And I bet that insurance against the debt has been sold too. Debt can be an end in itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acorn Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) However, as well as increased fuel and 'stress' on the engines, you would also have to factor in the ridiculously low speed they now have to proceed up the Mersey estuary. were not all 'old' sailing times quoted from the Mersey bar and not the departure from Pier head Traditionally sailing times were recorded from the The Rock to Douglas head. The Rock being near enough off New Brighton lighthouse at the mouth of the Mersey, Douglas Head being self explanatory. One thing is for sure Frances, you may well be a, self appointed, expert on all things Manx, snag is you're an English comeover and don't know it all. Edited November 10, 2010 by acorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monasqueen Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 [One thing is for sure Frances, you may well be a, self appointed, expert on all things Manx, snag is you're an English comeover and don't know it all. Since when has any of that been important when it comes to posting on this forum? Do you know it all, acorn, or do you have to wait until you become a mighty oak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilf_uk Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Times have changed and this shake up should be a chance for all parties to sit down and re-write the user agreement to the benefit of all parties (Islanders / SPC / Gov) and for the SPC to look at their charging strategies, with smaller profit margins. It's not as simple as that now as the SPCo have now been shown up as extremely vulnerable to even a slight fall in sales/profits. Is it a sound long term service provider to the island? With the exorbitant debt that they are carrying, I wouldn't bet on it. Maybe, as Bill Malarkey intimated, it's time to address the issue once and for all and fix up a long term strategy with (or without) the SPCo.... I agree- if the long term debt they are carrying is true – they are vulnerable and not just to competion, but to financial difficulties. But what is this debt? If they had a YE 08 turnover of £55m and made a profit of £9m (paid £17m dividends so resulted in loss of £8) then surely these accounts have taken the debt into account within the long or short term liabilities? Or am I missing the debt/liability in the accounts? These are the last accounts filed at companies’ house, so I can’t read them for YE 09 yet. Have you read any of the other postings? Ok - let me explain. The debt does not sit with IOMSPC - it sits with another company further up the structure called MIOM Limited. The lender is Banco Espinto Santo de Investimento SA ("BESI") (which, FYI, is NOT part of the MacQuarie group). BESI has legal charges registered over both the Ben and Manannan. It is worth noting that, according to documents filed with the Companies Registry, the Mananna is mortgaged 100% by BESI. IOMSPC therefore does not pay the cost of any interest/ loan repayments, nor do these show in the accounts. The dividends are paid upstream to MIOM who then services the interest payment on the debt, and passes (any) leftover profit upstream. From the select committee findings, it would appear that the loan interest repayments themselves are circa £10million per annum. The loans are 'interest only', therefore at the moment no capital is being repaid. This information is all the the public domain, in the form of the select committee reports and company registry filings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Traditionally sailing times were recorded from the The Rock to Douglas head. The Rock being near enough off New Brighton lighthouse at the mouth of the Mersey, Douglas Head being self explanatory. One thing is for sure Frances, you may well be a, self appointed, expert on all things Manx, snag is you're an English comeover and don't know it all. in A W Moore 1897 speed run Empress Queen - Mean Speed, Bar to Douglas Head, 22.85 knots, likewise for sea trials of the 1910 Snaefell and I did phrase it as a question - however I will bow to your better knowledge - maybe you could give a ref or two so I can correct my ignorance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilf_uk Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 These are the last accounts filed at companies’ house, so I can’t read them for YE 09 yet. THANK YOU!!! The IOMSPC is registered in the UK as a foreign company therefore has to publish it's accounts and these are available for anyone to view/ download. Enjoy! 2007 Accounts: IOMSPC2007.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilf_uk Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 THANK YOU!!! The IOMSPC is registered in the UK as a foreign company therefore has to publish it's accounts and these are available for anyone to view/ download. Enjoy! 2008 Accounts: IOMSPC2008.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 THANK YOU!!! The IOMSPC is registered in the UK as a foreign company therefore has to publish it's accounts and these are available for anyone to view/ download. Enjoy! 2008 Accounts: Everyone should read the 2008 accounts, especially pages 24 and 25. Then consider the freight loss. Who will you be sailing with in 2013? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilf_uk Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 Quick review: Turnover Profit Margin 2007 55,044,000 14,816,000 26% 2008 53,937,000 9,805,000 18% An interesting point is that SPCO has debtors listed of £66,609,000, inclusive of £4,641,000 in trade debtors as at 31/12/2008. Out of this, £60,972,000 in amounts owed by parent and fellow subsidiary companies. SPCO also owes £35,225,000 to parent and fellow subsidiary companies. One big merry-go-round with the companies reserves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newaccount Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 And, I believe the record for the IOM to Liverpool trip might still be held by the Steam ship Viking, at circa 2 & 1/2 hours, is that right??? Manannan = 2 hours and 20 minutes See blog entry for 25th May 2009 http://www.steam-packet.com/SteamPacket/2ColumnTemplate66x33.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID={F288E924-E31D-4C59-BCC1-DFED2290B37B}&NRORIGINALURL=/SteamPacket/Book-Now/2009%2bArchive.htm&NRCACHEHINT=ModifyGuest#May2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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