Mezeron & Steam Packet Master Thread

[gilf_uk]

Who will you be sailing with in 2013?

 

The IOMSPC - just not with it's current owners or massive debt, or possibly even it's current boats. It is MIOM which is going to have the problem and the IOMSPC will be sold off for a fraction of what the current owners paid for it. Even if it only make £1million a year it will still be attractive to someone.

[Sean South]

Who will you be sailing with in 2013?

 

The IOMSPC - just not with it's current owners or massive debt, or possibly even it's current boats. It is MIOM which is going to have the problem and the IOMSPC will be sold off for a fraction of what the current owners paid for it. Even if it only make £1million a year it will still be attractive to someone.

I think Gilf-UK has given a very accurate summary of the state of affairs. Regardless of who holds the debt it is still ultimately to be paid and paid out of the revenue generated by the IOMSPCo. As Gilf-UK states, the operating company will most likely survive albeit with different owners/Management and I, for one, believe that wouldn't be so bad. Now, The Government needs to get down to some serious legislating concerning the regulation of their sea (and air) carriers and their ability to operate sensibly and finance themselves. They need to look at some form of rules that the assets, particularly Government contracts/agreements, may not be used to generate massive debt that threatens the survival of the service. And as Gilf-Uk also says the company may only, theoretically (and extremely conservatively), return a profit of a million pounds but that would be attractive to some operators. The Government needs to realise that the right to operate sea and air travel/cargo for the island is a major asset to the Island and not a favour performed by the carriers contrary to the spiel they (the carriers) try to feed us.

[monasqueen]

McQuarie are hardly likely to worry about what they gat back from the sale of the company. They have already made enough from selling the assets, including shares.

[P.K.]

After the posts by Barrie Stevens I'm now wondering if the whole issue is too important to be left to the vagaries of the competitive market. Equally there is no way that Govt should be running transport services, so on paper at least the UA is a good idea. Unfortunately it seems to have given the wrong impression to the SP and their parent group i.e. that it's a commodity to be traded like any other.

 

Perhaps the Gov as a stakeholder is the best way forward? But it's all speculation until the SP makes it's move. Even though the scale of the lost turnover is difficult to get hold of I can't imagine the SP can just carry on as before. I guess we'll see...

[TomTucker]

Who will you be sailing with in 2013?

 

The IOMSPC - just not with it's current owners or massive debt, or possibly even it's current boats. It is MIOM which is going to have the problem and the IOMSPC will be sold off for a fraction of what the current owners paid for it. Even if it only make £1million a year it will still be attractive to someone.

I think Gilf-UK has given a very accurate summary of the state of affairs. Regardless of who holds the debt it is still ultimately to be paid and paid out of the revenue generated by the IOMSPCo. As Gilf-UK states, the operating company will most likely survive albeit with different owners/Management and I, for one, believe that wouldn't be so bad. Now, The Government needs to get down to some serious legislating concerning the regulation of their sea (and air) carriers and their ability to operate sensibly and finance themselves. They need to look at some form of rules that the assets, particularly Government contracts/agreements, may not be used to generate massive debt that threatens the survival of the service. And as Gilf-Uk also says the company may only, theoretically (and extremely conservatively), return a profit of a million pounds but that would be attractive to some operators. The Government needs to realise that the right to operate sea and air travel/cargo for the island is a major asset to the Island and not a favour performed by the carriers contrary to the spiel they (the carriers) try to feed us.

 

No airline is ever going to get rich serving the isle of man. Competition is a bad thing in the long term as we are all now aware.

 

No doubt the ferry operation is a different animal the Gov would not be able to ever come to a similar user agreement with an airline as the EU rules forbid monopolistic deals under the Open Skies policies.

[WTF]

Who will you be sailing with in 2013?

 

The IOMSPC - just not with it's current owners or massive debt, or possibly even it's current boats. It is MIOM which is going to have the problem and the IOMSPC will be sold off for a fraction of what the current owners paid for it. Even if it only make £1million a year it will still be attractive to someone.

I think Gilf-UK has given a very accurate summary of the state of affairs. Regardless of who holds the debt it is still ultimately to be paid and paid out of the revenue generated by the IOMSPCo. As Gilf-UK states, the operating company will most likely survive albeit with different owners/Management and I, for one, believe that wouldn't be so bad. Now, The Government needs to get down to some serious legislating concerning the regulation of their sea (and air) carriers and their ability to operate sensibly and finance themselves. They need to look at some form of rules that the assets, particularly Government contracts/agreements, may not be used to generate massive debt that threatens the survival of the service. And as Gilf-Uk also says the company may only, theoretically (and extremely conservatively), return a profit of a million pounds but that would be attractive to some operators. The Government needs to realise that the right to operate sea and air travel/cargo for the island is a major asset to the Island and not a favour performed by the carriers contrary to the spiel they (the carriers) try to feed us.

 

No airline is ever going to get rich serving the isle of man. Competition is a bad thing in the long term as we are all now aware.

 

No doubt the ferry operation is a different animal the Gov would not be able to ever come to a similar user agreement with an airline as the EU rules forbid monopolistic deals under the Open Skies policies.

 

perhaps, but allowing certain airlines to build up a large dept to the government is wrong also when you know full well you won't be getting paid. it is just an unofficial subsidy in reality

[ThankU]

I have a great idea, lets ask our MHKs to have a select committee into the SP depts costings a few £100 000s and end up clearing the SP dept so we can all live happy ever after, aint this the norm here

[Andy730]

And, I believe the record for the IOM to Liverpool trip might still be held by the Steam ship Viking, at circa 2 & 1/2 hours, is that right???

 

Manannan = 2 hours and 20 minutes

 

See blog entry for 25th May 2009

 

http://www.steam-packet.com/SteamPacket/2ColumnTemplate66x33.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID={F288E924-E31D-4C59-BCC1-DFED2290B37B}&NRORIGINALURL=/SteamPacket/Book-Now/2009%2bArchive.htm&NRCACHEHINT=ModifyGuest#May2009

 

Thanks for that. Although I find it strange that this wasn't 'shouted from the roof tops' at the time.

 

It would be interesting to see a list of times and ships sailing over the years... Guess that'll take a Racket fan to dig through the records for that to happen. A labour of love no doubt.

[Tempus Fugit]

bit of a panic with Kalana trying to depart, looked like it was heading for Conister Rock at one stage, fishing boat and tug to the rescue, now seems to be attached to Vic Pier

 

Oh, what excitement !

you don't get that with BMC

Edited November 10, 2010 by Tempus Fugit

[manshimajin]

Gilf UK many thanks for posting the links to the accounts.

 

One thing puzzles me a lot - the dividend policy.

 

Over the 3 years shown in the accounts the IOMSPC has made total operating profits of £42.531 million and paid dividends of £59.595 million i.e. over £17 more paid in dividends than was achieved in operating profits. Would these be payments being made to upstream companies to pay for loan interest? Presumably this is why assets/shareholder funds have dropped by about £8 million p.a. in the same period? At that rate shareholder funds would be wiped out by 2015?

 

If I am reading this correctly there is quite a challenge to generate enough operating profit to cover dividends and to rebuild the balance sheet.

[Southernman]

Gilf UK many thanks for posting the links to the accounts.

 

One thing puzzles me a lot - the dividend policy.

 

Over the 3 years shown in the accounts the IOMSPC has made total operating profits of £42.531 million and paid dividends of £59.595 million i.e. over £17 more paid in dividends than was achieved in operating profits. Would these be payments being made to upstream companies to pay for loan interest? Presumably this is why assets/shareholder funds have dropped by about £8 million p.a. in the same period? At that rate shareholder funds would be wiped out by 2015?

 

If I am reading this correctly there is quite a challenge to generate enough operating profit to cover dividends and to rebuild the balance sheet.

 

The dividend in 2007 was £22m, in 2008 £17m. In 2009, they only have £7.7m distributable reserves left plus the profit made in 2009. The shareholders may have a problem if they need to maintain the dividend to service debt etc.

[manshimajin]

The dividend in 2007 was £22m, in 2008 £17m. In 2009, they only have £7.7m distributable reserves left plus the profit made in 2009. The shareholders may have a problem if they need to maintain the dividend to service debt etc.

Thanks for that. I hadn't spotted that note to the accounts. So the reserves have gone from £23.9 million in 2007 to £7.7 million at the end of 2008. Wonder what the position is now? Presumably they can't continue to keep paying big dividends if there are limited reserves?

[Southernman]

The dividend in 2007 was £22m, in 2008 £17m. In 2009, they only have £7.7m distributable reserves left plus the profit made in 2009. The shareholders may have a problem if they need to maintain the dividend to service debt etc.

Thanks for that. I hadn't spotted that note to the accounts. So the reserves have gone from £23.9 million in 2007 to £7.7 million at the end of 2008. Wonder what the position is now? Presumably they can't continue to keep paying big dividends if there are limited reserves?

 

Interestingly, the 2009 accounts have not yet been filed and, if late, it's a criminal offence. UK companies only get 9 months to file but an "oversea" company may be different.

[monasqueen]

So the reserves have gone from £23.9 million in 2007 to £7.7 million at the end of 2008. Wonder what the position is now? Presumably can't continue to keep paying big dividends if there are limited reserves?

 

From the Hansard report of the Select Committee hearing, June 2009:

 

The Chairman:

If I could ask now, the continuing payment of a dividend which exceeds profits earned in the year depletes the shareholder reserves: was a similar level of dividend paid for the year 2008, and is the Company intending to continue with this policy? I think essentially you have answered that, but nonetheless, just for the record.

Mr Woodward:

I think, again, if I may refer to an answer we gave previously: in 2008, due to high fuel costs, capital expenditure, notwithstanding the Mannanan projects, as well as other capital expenditure, and lower passenger, vehicle and freight volumes, there was less cash available for distribution and therefore shareholders received no dividends.

Similarly, due to lower volumes experienced in the current challenging economic environment, we forecast no dividends to be paid in 2009.

[Shit3hawk]

Oh, what excitement !

you don't get that with BMC

 

So you conveniently forgot about the time they 'Rammed' their own vessel(possibly the Ben) against the battery pier breakwater then