Monkey boy Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 My understanding is the IOMSPC have debts of getting on for £200million. The majority of these debts are bank loans incurred by the current and previous owners in order to buy the company; with very little spent on new plant and equipment. In fact the ships are only valued at around £20million. Which begs two questions; first, "why did the banks agree to lend the money when the company has so little assets relative to the debt"? Answer, because the IOM Gov signed a user agreement giving 25 years of rights to only drive on drive off loading facility on the Island, and that gave IOMSPC what looks like a monopoly on the transport of freight and private cars and bikes. Second question is "who is paying the interest on the loan" Answer, we all are in higher fares and freight charges. Until, IOMSP gives back user agreement (which it clearly cannot afford to do) and another operator with less debt acquires the rights to the drive on/off facilities, we are all in for a tough time and probably higher fares. Mezeron might hurt IOMSPC but I doubt it cannot kill it and end the user agreement. So,how do we stop a mess like this happening again ..... My suggestion would be; we (the IOM Government) buys and owns the ships and then tenders the rights for a commercial company to operate them for say 10 years. If the operating company fails to deliver the service/fare promised or cannot keep up payment for use of the ships, they loose the operating contract. That way our money pays in fares stays in the IOM economy and does not end up in interest payments to overseas banks. What is happening at IOMSPC the same issue as Manchester United and Liverpool Football club .... however, the fans of the reds could always support City or Everton! .... we have nowhere else to go! That sounds almost like nationalisation. You'd have a nationalised company (or it's tendered company) in direct competition with a private company; I wonder how the private company would see that? Why don't you ask Colebournes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy730 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 My understanding is the IOMSPC have debts of getting on for £200million. The majority of these debts are bank loans incurred by the current and previous owners in order to buy the company; with very little spent on new plant and equipment. In fact the ships are only valued at around £20million. Which begs two questions; first, "why did the banks agree to lend the money when the company has so little assets relative to the debt"? Answer, because the IOM Gov signed a user agreement giving 25 years of rights to only drive on drive off loading facility on the Island, and that gave IOMSPC what looks like a monopoly on the transport of freight and private cars and bikes. Second question is "who is paying the interest on the loan" Answer, we all are in higher fares and freight charges. Until, IOMSP gives back user agreement (which it clearly cannot afford to do) and another operator with less debt acquires the rights to the drive on/off facilities, we are all in for a tough time and probably higher fares. Mezeron might hurt IOMSPC but I doubt it cannot kill it and end the user agreement. So,how do we stop a mess like this happening again ..... My suggestion would be; we (the IOM Government) buys and owns the ships and then tenders the rights for a commercial company to operate them for say 10 years. If the operating company fails to deliver the service/fare promised or cannot keep up payment for use of the ships, they loose the operating contract. That way our money pays in fares stays in the IOM economy and does not end up in interest payments to overseas banks. What is happening at IOMSPC the same issue as Manchester United and Liverpool Football club .... however, the fans of the reds could always support City or Everton! .... we have nowhere else to go! That sounds almost like nationalisation. You'd have a nationalised company (or it's tendered company) in direct competition with a private company; I wonder how the private company would see that? Why don't you ask Colebournes Go on... You've lost me??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Colbourne's (private) vs the MEA (govt) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy730 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Colbourne's (private) vs the MEA (govt) Ah yes... never agreed with that one... i could have a good rant about that one, but wont in this thread... On another note, i see the Kalana is having a tough time, it looks like she got to Douglas bay, then is tootling around at 2 & 1/2 knots perhaps heading for Wales?? It must be a bit windy out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack bauer's brother Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Does anyone know what kind of state these containers are in when they are offloaded from the mezeron ships after a rough crossing,ive heard plenty of rumours and horror stories,but can only take them as that rumours and stories unless someone on the inside can tell us more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Does anyone know what kind of state these containers are in when they are offloaded from the mezeron ships after a rough crossing,ive heard plenty of rumours and horror stories,but can only take them as that rumours and stories unless someone on the inside can tell us more. and I've seen cars written off on the cardeck of the Ben in high seas. What is your point for post no.17? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Does anyone know what kind of state these containers are in when they are offloaded from the mezeron ships after a rough crossing,ive heard plenty of rumours and horror stories,but can only take them as that rumours and stories unless someone on the inside can tell us more. They be no diffrent if they went on the ben. whats your point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Does anyone know what kind of state these containers are in when they are offloaded from the mezeron ships after a rough crossing,ive heard plenty of rumours and horror stories,but can only take them as that rumours and stories unless someone on the inside can tell us more. I don't think they're allowed to carry people on the inside. Shame it can't be much worse than travelling on the ben can it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack bauer's brother Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 just curious guys calm down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy730 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Does anyone know what kind of state these containers are in when they are offloaded from the mezeron ships after a rough crossing,ive heard plenty of rumours and horror stories,but can only take them as that rumours and stories unless someone on the inside can tell us more. First, I’m making an assumption here, so feel free to 'chip in' if anyone knows better. I'd assume that when packing a container that there is a way to pack it so that the unit can be moved around quite violently without damaging what it contains. This is of course within reason, a bit like double boxing anything fragile being sent via any of the available carriers. Another assumption; If the weather gets to a state where there is the possibility of a container being ripped off the deck, then I assume El Capitán can seek shelter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 How long will the end customer realise they are getting no delivery and losing sales through empty shelves or receiving stock beyond its sell-by date, although their freight costs will be lower they are not getting the service and losing more than they are saving ?. It may only be early days but it certainly hasn't been a roaring success so far. How long before Graylaw realises that Mezeron is losing them money by not being able to get goods from A to B at the expected time, with upset customers who have staff hanging around with nothing to do, and their own staff with nothing to deal with ?. How long before Mezeron realise that they are chartering 2 ships and charging half the price at twice the overheads to do what BMC is doing all on its own with monotonous regularity ? How long before those advocating competition and an open seas 'free-for-all' situation will realise that it won't save them anything on their daily life but will cost them dearly when they want to get off this rock, or will it only hit them in their pockets when they come to book their trip. How long before people realise that Kalana left Liverpool on tuesday night, sat anchored off Prestatyn until 9am wednesday morning, arrived off Douglas wednesday 2pm and turned around and is currently bobbing about half way between Douglas and Wales going absolutely nowhere, and still has Steve Carter as pilot on board. ? I know it's down to the weather but this is what we get, it's not exactly the ideal situation, is it ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowell thurber Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 How long will the end customer realise they are getting no delivery and losing sales through empty shelves or receiving stock beyond its sell-by date, although their freight costs will be lower they are not getting the service and losing more than they are saving ?. It may only be early days but it certainly hasn't been a roaring success so far. How long before Graylaw realises that Mezeron is losing them money by not being able to get goods from A to B at the expected time, with upset customers who have staff hanging around with nothing to do, and their own staff with nothing to deal with ?. How long before Mezeron realise that they are chartering 2 ships and charging half the price at twice the overheads to do what BMC is doing all on its own with monotonous regularity ? How long before those advocating competition and an open seas 'free-for-all' situation will realise that it won't save them anything on their daily life but will cost them dearly when they want to get off this rock, or will it only hit them in their pockets when they come to book their trip. How long before people realise that Kalana left Liverpool on tuesday night, sat anchored off Prestatyn until 9am wednesday morning, arrived off Douglas wednesday 2pm and turned around and is currently bobbing about half way between Douglas and Wales going absolutely nowhere, and still has Steve Carter as pilot on board. ? I know it's down to the weather but this is what we get, it's not exactly the ideal situation, is it ?. think the ben my chrees overheads are a lot more than 2 small coastal container ships Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOMRS97 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 TF is correct. Almost everyone has had a moan about the Steam Packet over the years but the alternative will be much, much worse. There may well come a time when people will wish they had supported the Steam Packet..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy730 Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 How long will the end customer realise they are getting no delivery and losing sales through empty shelves or receiving stock beyond its sell-by date, although their freight costs will be lower they are not getting the service and losing more than they are saving ?. It may only be early days but it certainly hasn't been a roaring success so far. That's a matter of opinion. How long before Graylaw realises that Mezeron is losing them money by not being able to get goods from A to B at the expected time, with upset customers who have staff hanging around with nothing to do, and their own staff with nothing to deal with ?. Like the days last week when Mezeron sailed and the Ben sat tied up in Douglas. How long before Mezeron realise that they are chartering 2 ships and charging half the price at twice the overheads to do what BMC is doing all on its own with monotonous regularity ? Apart from those sailings it recently missed! How long before those advocating competition and an open seas 'free-for-all' situation will realise that it won't save them anything on their daily life but will cost them dearly when they want to get off this rock, or will it only hit them in their pockets when they come to book their trip. How long before people realise that Kalana left Liverpool on tuesday night, sat anchored off Prestatyn until 9am wednesday morning, arrived off Douglas wednesday 2pm and turned around and is currently bobbing about half way between Douglas and Wales going absolutely nowhere, and still has Steve Carter as pilot on board. ? I know it's down to the weather but this is what we get, it's not exactly the ideal situation, is it ?. No it is not... but unfortunately that's part of living on a rock. The Racket has cancelled a few sailings recently, all covered earlier in this thread. The Mezeron service has had a few problems, but I’ve had the pleasure of sitting on the Ben, ready to sail, and yet couldn't due to wind. I've also had the pleasure of sailing towards the entrance of heysham, and found that we'd suddenly stopped. There was a large rumble of diesel engines and lots of brown wash being thrown forwards as we reversed. It was very apparent that we'd gone aground on a sand bank, even if it was reported as an electrical fault... It had to be an electrical fault as if a passenger ship grounds shouldn't it be checked in a dry dock?? Finally, I’d be watching what the Mezeron service does over the next few months, not just the last week or so... You might be proved right, but I suspect not. But I’ll keep my chocolate hat in the fridge just in case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 How long will the end customer realise they are getting no delivery and losing sales through empty shelves or receiving stock beyond its sell-by date, although their freight costs will be lower they are not getting the service and losing more than they are saving ?. It may only be early days but it certainly hasn't been a roaring success so far. That's a matter of opinion. How long before Graylaw realises that Mezeron is losing them money by not being able to get goods from A to B at the expected time, with upset customers who have staff hanging around with nothing to do, and their own staff with nothing to deal with ?. Like the days last week when Mezeron sailed and the Ben sat tied up in Douglas. The only commitment Mezeron (or whatever tax advantageous name in whatever country they charter under) have made is to the owners of the ships they have chartered. They have no moral, commercial or legal ties to the Island. Their ships are held only just so long as the charters subsist and they pay the 30 days hire in advance. (failure to pay means the actual owner can withdraw for all time and not come back) The ships under Mezeron charter can be withdrawn and traded elsewhere any time as the are only disponently owned. The "Steamies " are tied in by the User Agreement. Must provide passenger/car/trailer etc services and can (so far as I know) charter in only for temporary occasions such as TT, dry docking etc. How long before Mezeron realise that they are chartering 2 ships and charging half the price at twice the overheads to do what BMC is doing all on its own with monotonous regularity ? Apart from those sailings it recently missed! How long before those advocating competition and an open seas 'free-for-all' situation will realise that it won't save them anything on their daily life but will cost them dearly when they want to get off this rock, or will it only hit them in their pockets when they come to book their trip. How long before people realise that Kalana left Liverpool on tuesday night, sat anchored off Prestatyn until 9am wednesday morning, arrived off Douglas wednesday 2pm and turned around and is currently bobbing about half way between Douglas and Wales going absolutely nowhere, and still has Steve Carter as pilot on board. ? I know it's down to the weather but this is what we get, it's not exactly the ideal situation, is it ?. No it is not... but unfortunately that's part of living on a rock. The Racket has cancelled a few sailings recently, all covered earlier in this thread. The Mezeron service has had a few problems, but I’ve had the pleasure of sitting on the Ben, ready to sail, and yet couldn't due to wind. I've also had the pleasure of sailing towards the entrance of heysham, and found that we'd suddenly stopped. There was a large rumble of diesel engines and lots of brown wash being thrown forwards as we reversed. It was very apparent that we'd gone aground on a sand bank, even if it was reported as an electrical fault... It had to be an electrical fault as if a passenger ship grounds shouldn't it be checked in a dry dock?? Finally, I’d be watching what the Mezeron service does over the next few months, not just the last week or so... You might be proved right, but I suspect not. But I’ll keep my chocolate hat in the fridge just in case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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