Conservatives Forcing People To Work

[Marmalade]

I must admit I am a little flummoxed as to LDV's posts and that people should not have to work if they do not want to.

 

We unfortunately appear to live in a society which supports the 'can't be assed because I'm too good to work and expect everything on a plate'.

 

I personally believe there is dignity in all work - irrespective of what that work is and it is you LDV who are demeaning others by calling work 'menial'.

 

Not everyone has the same skills or abilities and not everyone is driven by career.

 

I struggled to find a job when I was growing up because unemployment where I lived was very high. What did I do? I moved to where there was work and have not been unemployed since (I was unemployed for about one year many, many years ago).

 

One of the issues with long-term unemployment is that it becomes part of your mindset, makes you feel de-skilled and a member of society who makes no real contribution. It is a vicious circle.

I think it is good idea that people do some form of work in return for the benefits they receive because for some it will help break the vicious circle which eats away at them and at our society.

 

Sometimes people just do need a kick up the ass to get them into gear.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

We unfortunately appear to live in a society which supports the 'can't be assed because I'm too good to work and expect everything on a plate'.

 

I personally believe there is dignity in all work - irrespective of what that work is and it is you LDV who are demeaning others by calling work 'menial'.

Frankly I think you are grossly deluded.

Certainly having such a belief makes work easier to bear. No doubt it make it easier for the vast majority to just get by and do what they're paid to do. But please explain why there is dignity in all forms of work.

[Bananaman]

But please explain why there is dignity in all forms of work.

 

 

Listen to what Parky has to say about his dad's work ethic. Pride and being proud about something

 

http://www.topgear.com/UK/videos/michael-parkinson?utm_campaign=ongoing&utm_medium=syndication&utm_source=truveo

 

Now I'm the ultimate Tory boy but have a lot of respect for this. Do you think his generation would approve of your mindset Lala?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

A lot of respect for what?

 

People can focus on particular aspects of what they do and praise themselves, quite rightly, such as recognising that one is particularly good at a certain task or that you have put in a lot of hard work. And certainly there is more scope to feel that pride if you have put your brains to doing something or used brawn.

 

But taken as a whole, it's a different matter. You have to call into question what someone is on the basis of what they do and why they do it. That leads to an altogether different outlook.

[manxy]

(LDV) It's a pile of shit. It's menial work that people are being coerced into doing. It is wrong to force people into this. Nothing is going to be learned. It's not going to make people more employable and it's not going to make people want to work.

I don't agree with your viewpoint on this LDV, but when this topic came around, I didn't expect to.

I do agree that being paid for menial work and the money earned is pretty poor as it does appear that this is being done for different reasons, but having said that, people do have a few alternatives;

 

1/ Do the menial work and get the pittance offered for little reward and little satisfaction

2/ Do the menial work, but use it as a springboard for better opportunities

3/ Do the work and gain some job satisfaction OR learning skills

4/ Don't do that particular work, but look for something more worthwhile

5/ Don't do the work and receive no payments

 

There's probably more choices than this, but as people are uniquely different, one of the above choices might be their choice of path, whether wanting too or not wanting too, but at the end of the day, they have the choice to choose.

 

I would like to pick up on this statement though;

(LDV) It's not going to make people more employable

You are wrong on that assumption as I personally know of a few people who worked for nothing at charitable organizations, for example, 'Crossroads', as a way of gaining office skills (or suchlike) to aid their personal development and have since gained employment soon after, in a line of work of their choosing.

 

I can see other area of contention leading off from this, but hey-ho, one thing at a time and I very much doubt that whatever is said by either of us, will change each others opinion, but at least its interesting to see different perspectives being brought up.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You are talking about an altogether different situation. The people you are referring to are going to charitable organisations to pick up useful skills for work they want to do and they are not being coerced by government to do it.

 

How does forced participation in a humiliating scheme doing the most miserable forms of work compare?

[Nosferatu]

Pretty much sums it up. The Daily Mash version of things

[spook]

@ LDV

 

If people could do work but don't, and rely on others for their living, then they are thieves.

 

It really is that simple.

[jimbms]

So LDV in your ideal state people should not be forced to do what they do not wish to do, in that cas it seems the majority here do not want to have their hard earned money end up in the pockets of the bone idle and workshy, so in your world we should all be allowed to not give them anything unless they work for it, or are you now going to do your usual and say that is completely different because it does not conform to what you say. Sometimes you are such a naive hypocrite.

[Cambon]

You are talking about an altogether different situation. The people you are referring to are going to charitable organisations to pick up useful skills for work they want to do and they are not being coerced by government to do it.

 

How does forced participation in a humiliating scheme doing the most miserable forms of work compare?

 

It is less to do with skills and more to do with contacts. Lots of very influential people do charitable work.

 

Besides, I would expect that the government will look at your skills before they decide what "menial" task you will be doing for your benefit. If you are a nursery nurse, I doubt they will have you collecting litter

[HeliX]

People who work are forced to pay for those who don't.

People are not forced to go onto JSA instead of working.

If people on JSA want to be working, any work is better than no work.

If they don't want to be working, they shouldn't be on JSA.

 

Seems like no biggie to me. JSA isn't a lifestyle choice for Christ's sake, it's there to pay the bills while you look for a job.

[manxy]

You are talking about an altogether different situation. The people you are referring to are going to charitable organisations to pick up useful skills for work they want to do and they are not being coerced by government to do it.

 

How does forced participation in a humiliating scheme doing the most miserable forms of work compare?

They are not forced to do anything as they either do it or don't do it.

It's their choice, their responsibility and their own personal action or inaction which will result in whatever way or consequence they choose to do.

[spook]

The irony is that LDV probably dosn't realise that his "socialist" views in reality are profoundly anti-social.

[Terse]

The irony is that LDV probably dosn't realise that his "socialist" views in reality are profoundly anti-social.

As you do not realise that your 'Christian' views are profoundly anti-Christian?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

So LDV in your ideal state people should not be forced to do what they do not wish to do, in that cas it seems the majority here do not want to have their hard earned money end up in the pockets of the bone idle and workshy, so in your world we should all be allowed to not give them anything unless they work for it, or are you now going to do your usual and say that is completely different because it does not conform to what you say. Sometimes you are such a naive hypocrite.

You have this terrible habit of creating straw men and telling me that I am a hypocrit for my supposed views.

No, actually, if you have control over your finances I think you have every legitimate reason to

withhold your money. If we lived in a democratic society and if we didn't live in this form quasi-capitalist/socialist but we don't. And you and other members of the public have opted to support their state and not challenge the economic system as a whole to remove the inherent inequalities and contradicitions it creates. Therefore, people who want the end to benefits are the hypocrits.

Either you accept the reasons for these problems through support of the system or think of ways to radically alter the whole system.