shamus Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 The debate in the USA rages over Terri. It really is a sad business which no one can doubt. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4369861.stm My personal view is that if they decide to remove the feeding tube and let this woman die then they should not just let her die due to organ failure etc. No one knows whether she will suffer during that because she has no ability to express discomfort and pain. If they pull the tube then give her an injection to put her to sleep like we would do for our cat or dog. Not leave her to linger for days with no knowledge of her real sufferring because she cannot communicate it. Either that or re-insert the tube and see if she does recover. Miracles have been known to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted March 21, 2005 Share Posted March 21, 2005 I for one, would never wish to be kept alive in a persistive vegetative state, if I ever end up that way - please, please pull the plug on me!! I'm not really sure how the healthcare system works in the USA, but it must have cost an absolute fortune to keep her in care and alive for the past 15 years, without knowing the full story of the case, I beleive that money could have been far better spent saving lives, rather than artificially prolonging the life of someone who really seems to have no chance of having a "life". If her parents are footing the bill to keep her alive then fair enough - if the funds are coming out of the public purse, then I think it's money that could be better spent somewere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Keeping someone alive long after an illness should have killed them and more to the point keeping them in a vegetated state can only be described as selfish and cruel. Let people have some dignity when their time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Withholding medical treatment is at times the right course of action to take. Withholding sustenance and hydration is murder. It really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 Keeping someone alive long after an illness should have killed them and more to the point keeping them in a vegetated state can only be described as selfish and cruel. Let people have some dignity when their time comes. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have no problem with that. Tell me, at the moment of her passing how are you going to ask her how dignified she feels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted March 22, 2005 Share Posted March 22, 2005 you can pray for her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.ph...color=27&size=S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Keeping someone alive long after an illness should have killed them and more to the point keeping them in a vegetated state can only be described as selfish and cruel. Let people have some dignity when their time comes. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have no problem with that. Tell me, at the moment of her passing how are you going to ask her how dignified she feels? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good question. I am supposing that in the event of myself being in that position I would feel decidedly undignified at the prospect of not being able to feed myself, communicate with the outside world or use the toilet. Relying on strangers to clean me and take care of everything that I would normally do on my own. I have taken the time to make a living will so that in the event of it happening to me there will be clear instructions to those concerned. It's a morbid thing to do but I wouldn't want anyone to be debating my dignity should anything happen to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kite Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Withholding medical treatment is at times the right course of action to take. Withholding sustenance and hydration is murder. It really is that simple. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> when the sustenance is beinggiven by way of medical treatment (as in this case) that must sully the waters of such a black and white world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Withholding medical treatment is at times the right course of action to take. Withholding sustenance and hydration is murder. It really is that simple. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> when the sustenance is beinggiven by way of medical treatment (as in this case) that must sully the waters of such a black and white world <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not as medical treatment as such but by an expedient means. What’s more some of the nursing staff report that she is capable, with aid, to take liquefied food and water by mouth. That would clearly show that she has retained or recovered the swallowing reflex. With nothing more than food and water and nursing care, not medical treatment, just care, this woman can and should live. Not feeding her is just cold blooded murder. I winder just how much her fate is being shaped by the ongoing but escalating pro / anti abortion argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kite Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 So she is on no drugs whatsoever? Or if she becomes in pain or gets an infection medical treatment should be withheld and that is fine but removing her feeding tube is murder? what a strange view. why anyone would want to prolong someones life who is ina PVS is beyond me. would you want your life prolonging Rog in this case? would anyone here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 So she is on no drugs whatsoever? Or if she becomes in pain or gets an infection medical treatment should be withheld and that is fine but removing her feeding tube is murder? what a strange view.why anyone would want to prolong someones life who is ina PVS is beyond me. would you want your life prolonging Rog in this case? would anyone here? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> From all accounts she is on no drug treatment whatsoever nor has she been for some considerable time. If she were to become obviously in pain then medication as pain relief is one thing, it would do no more than make her less uncomfortable, but if she were to get an infection then the withholding of antibiotics would in my opinion be in order as it would have the potential of extending her life as would intervention or resuscitation following a heart attack or a thrombosis. For example the case of a terminal cancer patient is quite different from what is at stake here. Even if , by increasing morphine, a doctor choose relieving suffering over prolonging life and doses of morphine that preclude the possibility of life in order to eliminate pain have and continue to be administered but that is very different from the situation being faced here. The withholding of the necessities of everyday life – that is simply wrong. It is exactly the same as holding a pillow over her face and suffocating her. But lets get specific here. Much has been made about the fact that her life lacks ‘quality’, but that is not some automatic permission to end it. For one thing who decides what is ‘quality’? Moreover although Most neurologists assert that she cannot feel anything, even pain or thirst yet there have been recorded cases of people who have emerged from PVS more severe than in her case and who told of being able to hear and feel things that were taking place around them and yet were simply unable to communicate. This woman IS able to respond to a limited degree. The argument being used is that she will never recover and so she should not be simply left in her present state --- costing $80,000 per month. Not that comes into it of course. Much. And would I want my life to continue until NATURE took its course? Dam right I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kite Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Wow. such a selfish attitude. one of my reasons for not wanting my life to be preserved if I was in such a state would be the affect on my family. Id prefer to be remembered with affection not for years of being in a PSV dont shout nature at me, never took any drugs for pain relief or had an operation? nature is overruled these days and Im sorry but the cost should come into it. that money could and should be way better spent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Rog, you serious about it costing $80k a month to keep her alive?? If so, I think it's a disgusting waste of money, that equates to $14,400,000 over the past 15 years she's been in this state. How many other US citizens could have had operations/medical treatment that this money could be spent on, how many lives could have been saved instead of keeping this poor wretched woman in this state? There's no way in hell any of us would consider keeping a pet dog or a cat in this condition - why not do the same for a human being? Sometimes I feel we are often more "humane" to our animal friends! I can understand your question on who decides "quality" of life and it being a subjective thing, but if you can't feed yourself, can't communicate, and can't wipe your own ar*e, then what sort of a quality of life is that? If I was in that state, and had all of my conscious faculties still in order, I would so wish that someone could put me out of my misery. (Maybe a morphine overdose opposed to starving to death) - but I would still rather be put out of my misery. I winder just how much her fate is being shaped by the ongoing but escalating pro / anti abortion argument. Can totally see your point here Rog - I do think the religious right are making as much out of this as they can (as probably the more liberal minded). From what I've seen of some of the US Fundies, I find them as extreme and scary as some of their Islamic counterparts, sometimes more scary as they seem to have a big say in the running of the world's largest superpower!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamus Posted March 24, 2005 Author Share Posted March 24, 2005 "From what I've seen of some of the US Fundies, I find them as extreme and scary as some of their Islamic counterparts, sometimes more scary as they seem to have a big say in the running of the world's largest superpower!!!" I agree with that. If this poor lady wishes to die then she should be given an injection to put her out of her misery. Not just withdrawing the feeding tube to create a prolonged painful suffering death. That is really cruel and no dog would be treated that way by a vet. This case is so sad because everyone in their own way means well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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