Wikkileaks

[Alias]

I agree - it is not a simple matter. But I think that it is a telling thing about the world we live in that the "freer" (my parenthises) societies are more vulnerable to being exposed and to having populations that are taken aback by what emerges.

 

Totalitarian and oppressive regimes have ways of making sure this doesn't happen very much - if at all.

 

I am very glad that for all the faults of our society (and the US one) that I am not living in some of the ones that will seek to make capital from this information.

The leaks do show the activeness of the intelligence services (which on one hand is their job, but on the other this goes beyond what the public 'expect') in gaining intelligence on political players. In this sense, it's perhaps distracting to say we are "freer" - there are still very real consequences for being discovered leaking information such as this, with Assange being the most high profile. Allegations of rape - perhaps true, perhaps not; but would it really be hard for an intelligence agency to set up a conviction for such a crime, especially if sex did occur? Exposing these leaks has severely damaged his ability to get a visa and travel at the least, and allegations are bound to follow - whilst relevant bodies can not deny the veracity of such leaks, they can try and discredit the figurehead's persona, and impose an agenda upon them.

[Max Power]

I agree - it is not a simple matter. But I think that it is a telling thing about the world we live in that the "freer" (my parenthises) societies are more vulnerable to being exposed and to having populations that are taken aback by what emerges.

 

Totalitarian and oppressive regimes have ways of making sure this doesn't happen very much - if at all.

 

I am very glad that for all the faults of our society (and the US one) that I am not living in some of the ones that will seek to make capital from this information.

The leaks do show the activeness of the intelligence services (which on one hand is their job, but on the other this goes beyond what the public 'expect') in gaining intelligence on political players. In this sense, it's perhaps distracting to say we are "freer" - there are still very real consequences for being discovered leaking information such as this, with Assange being the most high profile. Allegations of rape - perhaps true, perhaps not; but would it really be hard for an intelligence agency to set up a conviction for such a crime, especially if sex did occur? Exposing these leaks has severely damaged his ability to get a visa and travel at the least, and allegations are bound to follow - whilst relevant bodies can not deny the veracity of such leaks, they can try and discredit the figurehead's persona, and impose an agenda upon them.

If he's lucky they'll discredit him, if he's not he'll be found with a bullet in his head! Hopefully the former and nobody else will suffer the latter fate!

[Moghrey Mie]

Since that Aussie bloke from Wikkileaks has distributed 'sensitive material' from the good ole USA top secret drawer to the worlds press criticising many a world leader, it occured to me what their interpretation of our leaders were. That is if they even considered us important enough to spy on.

Perhaps we should have our own ManxWikkileaks, what do you think?

We don't need ManxWikkileaks, we have Manxforums!

 

But it doesn't tell us the communications between Whitehall and Tynwald-or what they secretly say about each other. Now that would be interesting.

[tonythetash]

Since that Aussie bloke from Wikkileaks has distributed 'sensitive material' from the good ole USA top secret drawer to the worlds press criticising many a world leader, it occured to me what their interpretation of our leaders were. That is if they even considered us important enough to spy on.

Perhaps we should have our own ManxWikkileaks, what do you think?

We don't need ManxWikkileaks, we have Manxforums!

 

But it doesn't tell us the communications between Whitehall and Tynwald-or what they secretly say about each other. Now that would be interesting.

 

We do have Manx Forums; but we all speculate and discuss things that we feel are important or not, or even stuff like the apprentice etc. The wikkileaks thing is different in that documents and e mails between high ranking US government offials, diplomats and spooks that should never have got past the pentagon walls are now public knowledge. Hilary is doing damage limitation not only for the US but also personally for herself, being implicated in a good portion of the leaks. It is interesting that some of the backgrounds on world leaders describe them as being ineffectual, however Mr Obama is keeping a very low profile in all of this so you wonder what his own intelligence services opinion of him is!

The original thought was what was thier opionion of us Manxies! If there is one, or are we bunched in with GB?

Also 'Manxieleaks' would be quite an interesting thought in respect of the documentation that the public never see's, like, the truth behind the MEA millions, what really went wrong with IRIS?, why are we still spending £000's on repairing the hospital, what was the outcome of Mount Murray?, even what are the figures our leaders spend on expenses to name but a few.

[manshimajin]

The leaks do show the activeness of the intelligence services (which on one hand is their job, but on the other this goes beyond what the public 'expect') in gaining intelligence on political players. In this sense, it's perhaps distracting to say we are "freer" - there are still very real consequences for being discovered leaking information such as this, with Assange being the most high profile. Allegations of rape - perhaps true, perhaps not; but would it really be hard for an intelligence agency to set up a conviction for such a crime, especially if sex did occur? Exposing these leaks has severely damaged his ability to get a visa and travel at the least, and allegations are bound to follow - whilst relevant bodies can not deny the veracity of such leaks, they can try and discredit the figurehead's persona, and impose an agenda upon them.

Yes - this is part of my dilemma about Wikileaks.

 

I would MUCH rather live in the societies that are generating the leaks to Assange than in the ones that capitalise on these security lapses. It is a bit of a lose/lose for less oppressive soceties. Countries like the US are expected to fight fair, to be open and transparent and to permit dissent in their citizenry. If they don't they are exposed as hypocrites on some issues.

 

I don't know about everyone else but I assume that in places like Iran and China dissent is a deadly road to walk. But Assange doesn't expose that.

[EORH]

Why has Castletown got bollards and nowhere else?,what is the true cost of Richmond Hill?,will the MEA shops go to the wall?,What is the true figure of the VAT loss?,all requiring a Manxwilkileak if the whistleblowers are out there.

[manshimajin]

Why has Castletown got bollards and nowhere else? (added by Manshimajin: for £100,000 more than it cost to something similar in the UK),what is the true cost of Richmond Hill?,will the MEA shops go to the wall?,What is the true figure of the VAT loss?,all requiring a Manxwilkileak if the whistleblowers are out there.

 

?????

[P.K.]

I wouldn't like to be in Pyongyang right now! Well actually, from what I've heard I wouldn't like to be in Pyongyang anytime...

 

The latest Grauniad leak:

 

"China supports the "independent and peaceful reunification of the Korean peninsula" and cannot afford to give the North Korean regime the impression it has a blank cheque to act any way it wants, Chinese officials based in Europe said today.

 

The officials, who asked not to be identified, spoke after the Guardian revealed that senior figures in Beijing, exasperated with North Korea behaving like a "spoiled child", had told their South Korean counterparts that China was leaning towards acceptance of reunification under Seoul's control."

 

Story.

 

Maybe shelling that island wasn't such a good idea after all...

[manshimajin]

Maybe shelling that island wasn't such a good idea after all...[/font]

The scary thing is that for a totalitarian military state which has its back to the wall, a succession underway and lots of folk in Cold War soviet style uniforms wondering what their next job might be post-reunification aggression against their neighbours (preferably for them to the South) is the rogues' way to divert attention from the problems at home.

 

It would have been much better not to tip them off (or to make them lose face in public) IMO. They are mad enough as it is.

 

Still I admire the Chinese for holding the view they do!

[P.K.]

Apparently Beijing expect NK to collapse on the death of the Great Dear whatever the dictator is currently called. It's already economically collapsed so his death might be the catalyst that causes it to implode. It could get very nasty if the NK military decide to take the ROK with them.

[manshimajin]

Apparently Beijing expect NK to collapse on the death of the Great Dear whatever the dictator is currently called. It's already economically collapsed so his death might be the catalyst that causes it to implode. It could get very nasty if the NK military decide to take the ROK with them.

Cue for appropriate music

[P.K.]

The End.

[gazza]

while Kiribati, in the South Pacific, is offered millions of dollars of incentives. Brussels is told taking prisoners could be "a low-cost way for Belgium to attain prominence in Europe".

 

now i do hope the isle of man has got on the phone to them,

who needs the vat when we could be paid millions for a few prisoners

[bellyup]

Its bringing all the right wing whack jobs out nicely though

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1334341/WikiLeaks-Sarah-Palin-demands-Julian-Assange-hunted-like-Al-Qaeda-terrorist.html

 

Sarah Palin suggests Julian Assange should be 'hunted like Bin Laden' - oblivious to the fact that everyone knows where Julian Assange actually lives, and what he does so he'd be rather easier to hunt down than Bin Laden. I don't even think that US intelligence would have any difficulty with that one.

 

PS: I'm amazed that our MHK's missed a trick as Kiribati was offered millions of dollars of incentives to take a few Guantanamo refugees. Surely we could have had our VAT shortfall plugged by taking 20 and moving them to Jurby? I'm amazed that not one of the losers we have in Tynwald didn't propose it as a solution.

 

Unlike the IOMGuantanamo has a warm pleasant Carribean climate and the Cubans are friendly -maybe they didnt want to come

[manshimajin]

Its bringing all the right wing whack jobs out nicely though

Bound to and I bet the conspiracy theorists are pawing through too.