spook Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I mean, can you list the laws? Are they specific and discrete? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Follow those and nothing more is needed in order to obey the Laws of The Lord. Salvation is another matter. Salvation is there to be taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Disclosure of The Law does not end with what is contained within the Tanekh. There is also a record of the disclosed Oral Law which is to be found in the various versions of the Talmud, and in which is included divine inspired Rabbinical interpretation of The Written Law ensuring that The Law is fitting with Man as he emerges from his expulsion from Eden. It is amazing to me how much that a few years ago was quite common knowledge has been forgotten or is being ignored in modern teaching of a political correct thing that has little to connect it with Christianity as it was known, taught, and understood as recently as even fifty years ago. Spook - the issue for me is that this means what is "ordained" can be cherry picked with no way of telling if the picking is correct or not. A Catholic has faith their cherry picking is infallible - you, should we say respectfully, disagree. You feel your cherry picking is guided by the Spirit or whatever. I just see human behaviours which are as flawed, and as useful - and I'm not being snarky here, alot of the behaviours which religions pass on are useful - as any of the other ancient traditions and new ones too! None of them seem to have a divinely sanctioned way to a better world. And often seem designed to create hell on earth though their convolutions, proscriptions etc which nullify much of what I think is unique about humanity's diveristy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Spook - the issue for me is that this means what is "ordained" can be cherry picked with no way of telling if the picking is correct or not. You’ve hit on a hugely important issue there. It’s one area in which, to be honest, The Bible itself represents “cherry picking” by various interested parties starting not with Constantine who was concerned with the dangers that would result from the growing cult of Arianism, but something far earlier than “Nicea”. In fact the Christian canon initially had already been established and agreed and based on the undisputed “books” comprising of the 4 Gospels, Acts, 13 Paul, 1 Peter, 1 John, and Revelation by people much closer on the time line from Constantine. In spite of this there is a constant theme. It starts with the acceptance of The Lord by the tribes of Israel where previously they had been polytheistic, and moves through an evolving morality, first based on survival and remaining exclusive, through social growth, relaxation of those laws that maintained strict discipline, through a period when the lawyers took over, and into Christianity. Follow that trend and one will not go far wrong. A Catholic has faith their cherry picking is infallible - you, should we say respectfully, disagree. You feel your cherry picking is guided by the Spirit or whatever. I just see human behaviours which are as flawed, and as useful - and I'm not being snarky here, alot of the behaviours which religions pass on are useful - as any of the other ancient traditions and new ones too! The Roman Catholic church for me is an abomination. It is based on the abandonment of the principle of a seamless connectivity between God and man and the breaking of the Decalogue to the extent of heresy. None of them seem to have a divinely sanctioned way to a better world. And often seem designed to create hell on earth though their convolutions, proscriptions etc which nullify much of what I think is unique about humanity's diveristy. But is man just humanity on the hoof, or is man much more? I say the latter, but that it takes living a good Christian life in order to come closest to the ideal. A Christian will not out of his Christianity stop another person from living a life of crime, he should point out when sin is being committed, he should intercede to protect someone being or from injured, he should distance himself from things foul, he should present “Good Witness”, but that’s about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweek Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 More tosh I bet you lose at least 6 arguments with yourself - every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Spook: so let's see you are saying we should live by the laws some old beirded jewish geezer go from going up a mountain and this mysterious god gezzer then etched into tw perfectly formed bits of rock for him and he then carried back down one of the highest and steepest moutains in the area, bearing in mind he was wearing only a nighty and soem flip flops and he was at least 60 plus the fact these two dods of rock where about the size and weight of two large rectangular paving slabe which a young fit weightlifter would struggle to hld for more than a few minutes. hehehehe you god botherers really take the biscuit with your stories. oh btw I am happy to say in my time i have broken every one of those rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Spook: so let's see you are saying we should live by the laws some old beirded jewish geezer go from going up a mountain and this mysterious god gezzer then etched into tw perfectly formed bits of rock for him and he then carried back down one of the highest and steepest moutains in the area, bearing in mind he was wearing only a nighty and soem flip flops and he was at least 60 plus the fact these two dods of rock where about the size and weight of two large rectangular paving slabe which a young fit weightlifter would struggle to hld for more than a few minutes. hehehehe you god botherers really take the biscuit with your stories. Is that really the sum of your understanding of what has been written here? Let alone the meaning of “tablets of stone”? You have so very much to learn, and yet in ignorance of Christianity you yell defiance at the very thing about which you know so little. oh btw I am happy to say in my time i have broken every one of those rules In spite of that, even if true, Jesus offers you salvation if you truly repent and accept His offer of salvation, and try to live the remainder of your life in the way and with the values that He teaches us. You’re now of an age whereby although probably not exactly yet “twixt the saddle and the ground” that point is closer now than your birth and you never know when you’ll find yourself falling, or when in extremis if you’ll be able to remember what you must do in order to avoid an eternity in the pits of hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 ok spook you need to stop chewing suppositaries, go preach to those who give a toss and shove your repentance up your arse, if on the million to one chance your right hell sounds a lot more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Follow those and nothing more is needed in order to obey the Laws of The Lord.This is what I don't understand. You mention following those two things, but seem to treat them as separate to The Laws of the Lord. What are the laws? I am asking in expectation of (maybe) a list that includes the Ten Commandments and all other commands. Obviously the two things you mention are not the only guide, as things would be left to a lot of different interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Follow those and nothing more is needed in order to obey the Laws of The Lord.This is what I don't understand. You mention following those two things, but seem to treat them as separate to The Laws of the Lord. What are the laws? I am asking in expectation of (maybe) a list that includes the Ten Commandments and all other commands. Obviously the two things you mention are not the only guide, as things would be left to a lot of different interpretation. The laws of The Lord are The Bible. All of it. It is both a record, and a guide book. The essence of the Law of The Lord is contained here. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Follow those and nothing more is needed in order to obey the Laws of The Lord. The beauty is the absence of specifics, because specifics provide the possibility of “get out” excuses. Take the first, the demand that one should love the Lord God with all ones heart, and with all ones soul, and with all one’s mind. To do this one should learn of the ways of The Lord in guiding, protecting, and at times admonishing the jews. At how by His prophets he disclosed changes to the initial constraining 613 commandments, and how by sending His Only Son, Jesus, to us. In doing so he both cleansed the jews from being governed by weasel words by the lawyers of the day who were taking specific Laws and distorting them, and provided a path to salvation, while demonstrating how a perfect life should be led that was set by Jesus. A thing that none of us can achieve because we are all by definition imperfect, but that we can aspire to. That first law sets out the relationship that is fitting between God and man and one should love The Lord for his lovingkindness towards mankind. The second, that we should love our neighbour as ourselves is another cover all. If I love another person as much as myself how can I steal from them, lie to them, or for that matter do any wrong to them? It does not mean that I can not defend myself from them but it does mean that I must never stop loving them. Contained within that is the difference between righteous war that sadly must be engaged in, and genocide. LDV, the Laws of The Lord are not to be found on paper, they are to be found in a good souls and a good souls will follow the principles of JOY when deciding on how to live their lives. Remember JOY? Decisions first to be based on J. Jesus, what would Jesus do in a given situation. Then decisions further based on O. Others. Other people. Put them before oneself before the Y. You, what do you want as an outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweek Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Follow those and nothing more is needed in order to obey the Laws of The Lord.This is what I don't understand. You mention following those two things, but seem to treat them as separate to The Laws of the Lord. What are the laws? I am asking in expectation of (maybe) a list that includes the Ten Commandments and all other commands. Obviously the two things you mention are not the only guide, as things would be left to a lot of different interpretation. The laws of The Lord are The Bible. All of it. It is both a record, and a guide book. The essence of the Law of The Lord is contained here. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Follow those and nothing more is needed in order to obey the Laws of The Lord. The beauty is the absence of specifics, because specifics provide the possibility of “get out” excuses. Take the first, the demand that one should love the Lord God with all ones heart, and with all ones soul, and with all one’s mind. To do this one should learn of the ways of The Lord in guiding, protecting, and at times admonishing the jews. At how by His prophets he disclosed changes to the initial constraining 613 commandments, and how by sending His Only Son, Jesus, to us. In doing so he both cleansed the jews from being governed by weasel words by the lawyers of the day who were taking specific Laws and distorting them, and provided a path to salvation, while demonstrating how a perfect life should be led that was set by Jesus. A thing that none of us can achieve because we are all by definition imperfect, but that we can aspire to. That first law sets out the relationship that is fitting between God and man and one should love The Lord for his lovingkindness towards mankind. The second, that we should love our neighbour as ourselves is another cover all. If I love another person as much as myself how can I steal from them, lie to them, or for that matter do any wrong to them? It does not mean that I can not defend myself from them but it does mean that I must never stop loving them. Contained within that is the difference between righteous war that sadly must be engaged in, and genocide. LDV, the Laws of The Lord are not to be found on paper, they are to be found in a good souls and a good souls will follow the principles of JOY when deciding on how to live their lives. Remember JOY? Decisions first to be based on J. Jesus, what would Jesus do in a given situation. Then decisions further based on O. Others. Other people. Put them before oneself before the Y. You, what do you want as an outcome. Oh you go on...go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on,. ...go on. Go on a religious forum and waffle on - we are NOT interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Go on a religious forum and waffle on - we are NOT interested. Christianity has no bounds. It has a place in all forums and in all of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Go on a religious forum and waffle on - we are NOT interested. Christianity has no bounds. It has a place in all forums and in all of life. Trust me it has no place in my life pal except for a deep hatred of it and all it stands for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Go on a religious forum and waffle on - we are NOT interested. Christianity has no bounds. It has a place in all forums and in all of life. Trust me it has no place in my life pal except for a deep hatred of it and all it stands for How sad. I sincerely pity you and will, with others this weekend, pray that you will come to The Lord. We don’t need to know you beyond that there is a soul in danger abecause of ignorence nnd self torment by pride. We will pray for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 oh for fuck sake get it through your thick skull STICK YOUR PRAYERS FOR ME UP YOUR GOD FEARING ARSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 That first law sets out the relationship that is fitting between God and man and one should love The Lord for his lovingkindness towards mankind. The second, that we should love our neighbour as ourselves is another cover all. If I love another person as much as myself how can I steal from them, lie to them, or for that matter do any wrong to them? It does not mean that I can not defend myself from them but it does mean that I must never stop loving them. Contained within that is the difference between righteous war that sadly must be engaged in, and genocide. Thank you for taking the answer. On a separate matter, what instances are there where you would put others before yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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