Cambon Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Exactly, so why isn't there a market for expensive SATA cables with daft claims? It's because the Home Cinema/Audiophile market drives demand for that stuff. Actually it is because everything is duplicated. And when it does go wrong it is usually the cabling / connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Actually it is because everything is duplicated. And when it does go wrong it is usually the cabling / connections. Servers may have a raid setup, but that's not to say you'd use components that you were expecting to fail. I've been in IT for over 20 years, and it's very rarely the cabling/connections that fail in a computer, it's far more likely to be the moving parts that fail. Fans and disks particularly. Take the example into the living room. You'll see people with high spec PVR boxes who have no idea of the internals, and it'll be a standard PC SATA cable that connect the HDD in that box to the interface. That's ignored, but works fine for those High Def video data rates. Then on the outside of the box you'll have a premium fannytastic HDMI cable carrying the same data. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatdamaged Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I have to agree with Slim here Cambon, a more expensive HDMI cable won't give you an improved picture, the only difference is (like you said) build quality BUT, if the cheap cable is of a good build quality, and is certified like Slim said, then it will perform perfectly well for years to come. Who unplugs their HDMI lead every day? I've never seen a SATA, IDE or power cable fail inside a workstation or server, that's with 10 years IT experience. You don't happen to sell high end cables do you? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Actually it is because everything is duplicated. And when it does go wrong it is usually the cabling / connections. Servers may have a raid setup, but that's not to say you'd use components that you were expecting to fail. I've been in IT for over 20 years, and it's very rarely the cabling/connections that fail in a computer, it's far more likely to be the moving parts that fail. Fans and disks particularly. And the first thing you check is that the thing is wired up. Funny, I have just been into my staging room, and every cable, every disk, every memory card, etc. I picked up had gold plated connectors. The manufacturer we deal with insists on us using their cables. Failure to do so can end with warranty problems. Their cables are no expensive. More than £1.50, but not expensive. Why do you think they insist on their cables? Why do you think they are gold plated? Haev you seen the price of gold recently? Do you think your £1.50 cables haev any gold content? Assuming you have a staging room, go and have a look yourself. See if you can find any memory, disks, etc. that do not have gold connections. If you do, please let me know the name of the manufaturer so I can ensure I never buy their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I have to agree with Slim here Cambon, a more expensive HDMI cable won't give you an improved picture, the only difference is (like you said) build quality BUT, if the cheap cable is of a good build quality, and is certified like Slim said, then it will perform perfectly well for years to come. Who unplugs their HDMI lead every day? I've never seen a SATA, IDE or power cable fail inside a workstation or server, that's with 10 years IT experience. You don't happen to sell high end cables do you? :-) I never said that a more expensive HDMI would improve anything other than reliability. No, I don't sell high end cables, I work in IT - for slightly longer than you and slim put together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Funny, I have just been into my staging room, and every cable, every disk, every memory card, etc. I picked up had gold plated connectors. The manufacturer we deal with insists on us using their cables. Failure to do so can end with warranty problems. Their cables are no expensive. More than £1.50, but not expensive. Why do you think they insist on their cables? Why do you think they are gold plated? Haev you seen the price of gold recently? Do you think your £1.50 cables haev any gold content? Assuming you have a staging room, go and have a look yourself. See if you can find any memory, disks, etc. that do not have gold connections. If you do, please let me know the name of the manufaturer so I can ensure I never buy their products. You're missing out the crucial part, what's the price of this gear your talking about? Is it premium stuff? Links please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 You're missing out the crucial part, what's the price of this gear your talking about? Is it premium stuff? Links please? Why is that crucial? In an earlier post you said that you put together mission critical systems using £1.50 cables. Besides, Did you find any memory sticks, hard drives, etc that did not have gold plated connections? Because I seriously doubt you will. The connections are too important, which has been my one and only point all along. Your gamer site is totally wrong to say it isn't. Or maybe the entire IT industry is wrong and you are right. Somehow I doubt it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 The manufacturer we deal with insists on us using their cables. Failure to do so can end with warranty problems. Their cables are no expensive. More than £1.50, but not expensive. Why do you think they insist on their cables? It's because support is expensive from their end and they want you to cost them as little as possible. Support costs them money and they want to make as much as they possibly can out of the service contract - better for them the less you call them. By specifying their own accessories they are able to control the eco system better. They know that their own cables are okay. But that does not mean that other cables are not okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Why is that crucial? In an earlier post you said that you put together mission critical systems using £1.50 cables. Network cables eye. Pretty much everyone does. It's crucial because I think you've forgotton what you're arguing about. Remind yourself with what you responded to: http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/42982-hmv-to-close-60-stores-as-sales-and-shares-slump/page__view__findpost__p__580851 I said gold cables, you're banging on about gold plated connectors. These are two very different things. I'm saying that most premium audiophile cables are a waste of money, that a bog standard certified cable is fine unless you've got some special circumstances. For some reason, this is contentious, and you've invented a number of reasons from signal quality (you mentioned artifacts in one post) to strength and you've talked about corrosion. Besides, Did you find any memory sticks, hard drives, etc that did not have gold plated connections? Because I seriously doubt you will. The connections are too important, which has been my one and only point all along. Your gamer site is totally wrong to say it isn't. Or maybe the entire IT industry is wrong and you are right. Somehow I doubt it though. The gamer site said that a cheap cable performs the same as an expensive one in terms of picture reproduction. That isn't wrong, it's been proved over and over, and I've provided the links. Yes, connectors very often have gold plating, even the cheap ones. I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm saying you shouldn't blow a fortune on cables because the hifi shop tells you they'll make the picture better. It won't. Very often these cables are all made in the same factories anyway, and the main difference is the fancy casings, nothing to do with the connectors. It's snake oil. I hope that's clear now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I said gold cables, you're banging on about gold plated connectors. These are two very different things. I'm saying that most premium audiophile cables are a waste of money, that a bog standard certified cable is fine unless you've got some special circumstances. For some reason, this is contentious, and you've invented a number of reasons from signal quality (you mentioned artifacts in one post) to strength and you've talked about corrosion. Slim, gold is about the only metal that basically does not corrode. Eventually the minute connectors in an HDMI will stop it working altogether, especially if they are not gold plated. That is a problem cause by corrosion. I never mentioned artifacts, jitter, or a better picture by using a better cable. The gamer site said that a cheap cable performs the same as an expensive one in terms of picture reproduction. That isn't wrong, it's been proved over and over, and I've provided the links. Yes, connectors very often have gold plating, even the cheap ones. I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm saying you shouldn't blow a fortune on cables because the hifi shop tells you they'll make the picture better. It won't. Very often these cables are all made in the same factories anyway, and the main difference is the fancy casings, nothing to do with the connectors. It's snake oil. I hope that's clear now? The gamer site is correct in the short term. However, the cheap cables are not robust enough to stop Mrs. Slim potentially snapping them whilst dusting, or junior whilst playing indoor football while nobody is watching. All your computer cables inside a box don't get affected by that sort of thing. your external ones do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Slim, gold is about the only metal that basically does not corrode. Eventually the minute connectors in an HDMI will stop it working altogether, especially if they are not gold plated. That is a problem cause by corrosion. I never mentioned artifacts, jitter, or a better picture by using a better cable. The gamer site is correct in the short term. However, the cheap cables are not robust enough to stop Mrs. Slim potentially snapping them whilst dusting, or junior whilst playing indoor football while nobody is watching. All your computer cables inside a box don't get affected by that sort of thing. your external ones do. Arguing about gold being more durable to snapping is flawed - the amounts of gold used in connectors offers little protection. And as for corrosion resistance, what about palladium/nickel ? Either way, has little to do with HMV's retail lack of recent success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesypeas Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Gold gold gold bored bored bored. Question is, will they close the store here or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Question is, will they close the store here or not? Ultimately they will close all of their stores. Because the entire physical business has no future. So ultimately inevitably yes. It's Woolworths again. Then it's a question of whether it will close in the first round of closures. It's also perfectly possible that the remaining HMV retail brand has no future even online. It would be amazing if they could come from nowhere and establish themselves now as an online brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 It's also perfectly possible that the remaining HMV retail brand has no future even online. It would be amazing if they could come from nowhere and establish themselves now as an online brand. It would be interesting to know what percentages there are between HMV's online retail division versus their physical stores. It has to have been on their agenda for a while to push in that direction for company survival. Maybe HMV will just end up selling gig tickets and mp3 downloads, but I still think physical media has at least 5 years in it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 It's also perfectly possible that the remaining HMV retail brand has no future even online. It would be amazing if they could come from nowhere and establish themselves now as an online brand. It would be interesting to know what percentages there are between HMV's online retail division versus their physical stores. It has to have been on their agenda for a while to push in that direction for company survival. Maybe HMV will just end up selling gig tickets and mp3 downloads, but I still think physical media has at least 5 years in it yet. I don't see them establishing themselves in the download market. The question has to be whether a business which is winding down is worth continuing to invest in given the state of its finances. Ultimately it's down to whether the brand has any remaining inherent perception of value. It's just the name really - and the fact that many many years ago it was once associated with a gramophone company. I say it doesn't (even if they get rid of the crazy downmarket pink branding and go back to something much more classic). So is the name worth anything ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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