Phildo Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Cheap synthesised systems are great for home studios, but that is about the limit of there use. Unfortunately, that is where a good proportion of pop music comes from, and that is a lot of the problem. Think you're labouring under something of a misapprehension as to the price of virtual studio "equipment", there. Believe me, they ain't necessarily cheap! Also the use of such systems (Pro Tools for instance) extends far, far beyond home studios. I'd say that in the region of 90% of modern music is recorded this way. We're living in the future,which largely seems to consist of trying to make stuff sound old with the newest of new tech! Anyhoo, BTTT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 So is the name worth anything ? IMO? Yeah I think the name/brand is worth at least something, but it needs to react to the market. What will it do? I don't know. But I do think HMV will remain in some way, but not physical stores. Like you say though - this: As one analyst said after HMV's results: "It's very tough to invest in a company that operates in a market that's shrinking 10% a year, no matter how hard they're trying to fight against it." From: HMV's Simon Fox on transforming a retailer into an entertainment superbrand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Think you're labouring under something of a misapprehension as to the price of virtual studio "equipment", there. Believe me, they ain't necessarily cheap! Also the use of such systems (Pro Tools for instance) extends far, far beyond home studios. I'd say that in the region of 90% of modern music is recorded this way. We're living in the future,which largely seems to consist of trying to make stuff sound old with the newest of new tech! Anyhoo, BTTT... I agree, but when looking at really good studios like Abbey Road, the cost of virtual equipment like Pro Tools, etc. is insignificant compared to the cost of the physical. For example, one of their many control rooms uses a 7.1 speaker system including of three B&W 800 Diamonds and Bryston 7B monoblocks, plus of course the rears, sides and matching subwoofer That on it's own probably comes to about £60K, before you start adding the bespoke console and masses of other equipment. I agree, 90% of music is recorded in the way you describe, but only because the cost of using a top end studio is beyond the reach of the average band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I agree, but when looking at really good studios like Abbey Road, the cost of virtual equipment like Pro Tools, etc. is insignificant compared to the cost of the physical. For example, one of their many control rooms uses a 7.1 speaker system including of three B&W 800 Diamonds and Bryston 7B monoblocks, plus of course the rears, sides and matching subwoofer That on it's own probably comes to about £60K, before you start adding the bespoke console and masses of other equipment. I agree, 90% of music is recorded in the way you describe, but only because the cost of using a top end studio is beyond the reach of the average band. I think you've missed the point. For example, you'll not run a certain guitar through an effects pedal to a particular amp to get the sound your after in a studio now. Instead you'll run it through a bunch of virtual pieces of equipment that will recreate the sound digitally. This knocks on then to the masters you were talking about. It matters because the source has changed, we're no longer recording the output from a bunch of analog instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I think you've missed the point. For example, you'll not run a certain guitar through an effects pedal to a particular amp to get the sound your after in a studio now. Instead you'll run it through a bunch of virtual pieces of equipment that will recreate the sound digitally. This knocks on then to the masters you were talking about. It matters because the source has changed, we're no longer recording the output from a bunch of analog instruments. Interesting Slim, If you have a look at Abbey Roads website, the first thing you see is a grand piano, not a synthesiser. Drill down the site a bit. Look at some of the lists of equipment used. You will find there is actually more analogue equipment than digital. I did not miss the point at all. eta - The site gives a different picture each time you sign in. You can refresh it though. Also, in response to your post, there is a DVD called "It May Get Loud" which it may be worth you watching before you comment any more on the subject of synthesised guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Slim, gold is about the only metal that basically does not corrode. Eventually the minute connectors in an HDMI will stop it working altogether, especially if they are not gold plated. That is a problem cause by corrosion. I never mentioned artifacts, jitter, or a better picture by using a better cable. The gamer site is correct in the short term. However, the cheap cables are not robust enough to stop Mrs. Slim potentially snapping them whilst dusting, or junior whilst playing indoor football while nobody is watching. All your computer cables inside a box don't get affected by that sort of thing. your external ones do. Arguing about gold being more durable to snapping is flawed - the amounts of gold used in connectors offers little protection. And as for corrosion resistance, what about palladium/nickel ? Either way, has little to do with HMV's retail lack of recent success. Marc Dimmitt, former technical support manager for Clark Wire and Cable: "Cheap connectors are often poorly plated," says Dimmitt. "Silver-plated contacts are especially prone to corrosion." What about gold plating? "Gold connectors are a big fallacy. Gold-to-gold is an excellent contact, but if you have silver or tin contacts on your equipment, you're throwing your money away and asking for problems by using a gold-plated connector. When you put electricity through a junction of dissimilar metals, there are electrochemical migrations over time that can cause problems." Not the first time I've read something like this re gold connectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Interesting Slim, If you have a look at Abbey Roads website, the first thing you see is a grand piano, not a synthesiser. Drill down the site a bit. Look at some of the lists of equipment used. You will find there is actually more analogue equipment than digital. I did not miss the point at all. You did, and you're still missing it. You need to be looking inside Bruno Mars' laptop, not a traditional studio like Abbey Road. Also, in response to your post, there is a DVD called "It May Get Loud" which it may be worth you watching before you comment any more on the subject of synthesised guitars. I'm a big fan of what Jack White does, but you can hardly hold his methods up as a typically modern. I'm also not making any judgement about the quality of these methods, just that it's how so much music is made that talk of masters isn't really appropriate. Why get upset that an mp3 is *only* 192k if the song has been constructed with 128k samples using garage band? The point I'm trying to make is that it's far more than just 'mp3s are shit'. It depends; how the songs been made, what you're listening it to on, where your listening, what it is (ie spoken audio vs music), what type of music, etc. It's a stupid generalisation that just looks like audiophile snobbery. There was a bit of fuss recently that the best quality available for certain songs were via downloads the Rock Band game on the PS3 and 360, because they surpassed the sources used on those artists CD's. Something happened in between the recording studio and the CD mastering that compressed em and made them bloody awful, so some of the best scene releases for those albums are based on the games soundtrack. On the other hand, I've got some superb brass music that's been lovingly recorded (I watched it happen!) and I listen to that lossless. It's appropriate. Do you see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 On the other hand, I've got some superb brass music that's been lovingly recorded (I watched it happen!) and I listen to that lossless. It's appropriate. Do you see? My reasoning for pointing you towards that film actually was nothing to do with Jack White. It was to do with The Edge. Part of the film interviews him describing how he spends hours and hours, days, looking for new sounds. Making new sounds. It is not a matter of simply plugging a guitar into a computer with a bit of software, as you described earlier. With the best will in the world, a computer can only do what it is told. It cannot create new sound. For what it is worth, I am a fan of most digital recording formats. Downloading better sounding Xbox things you described is fine. Easy actually. A bit of a no-brainer. However, as I said all along, CD is a lossy format, but in general it makes mincemeat of MP3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I've got some superb brass music that's been lovingly recorded (I watched it happen!) Re assure me here. You're talking about some hyper cool latin swing thing aren't you and not brass bands ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I've got some superb brass music that's been lovingly recorded (I watched it happen!) Re assure me here. You're talking about some hyper cool latin swing thing aren't you and not brass bands ? Rebirth Brass Band I really like these.... Now, back on topic.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 My reasoning for pointing you towards that film actually was nothing to do with Jack White. It was to do with The Edge. Part of the film interviews him describing how he spends hours and hours, days, looking for new sounds. Making new sounds. It is not a matter of simply plugging a guitar into a computer with a bit of software, as you described earlier. With the best will in the world, a computer can only do what it is told. It cannot create new sound. Hehe, that's quite funny. Have you seen Bill Baily perform as The Edge without effects? You're talking about a performer who's defining style is based on digital processing, he uses all sorts of processing to make that sound, including products from line 6, eg: http://line6.com/artists/ These are basically digital guitars, they can simulate the sound of a multitude of guitars, and plugged into line 6's other products they simulate a bunch of amps and pedals to make those new sounds the Edge is on about in that film, but you don't need any gear at all, just the guitar and a laptop and a copy of the plugins in your virtual rack. You'll like this: http://line6.com/propellerhead/abbeyroad.html, these boys have basically sampled the stuff at Abby road, and you can plug it into your reason stack on your laptop and play with it. Amazing stuff. Have you used the software we're talking about? For what it is worth, I am a fan of most digital recording formats. Downloading better sounding Xbox things you described is fine. Easy actually. A bit of a no-brainer. However, as I said all along, CD is a lossy format, but in general it makes mincemeat of MP3. No, it doesn't. Thank goodness the rest of the world understands that and the format is almost dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Re assure me here. You're talking about some hyper cool latin swing thing aren't you and not brass bands ? Ecky thump Pongo, don't be dissing Brass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 You're talking about a performer who's defining style is based on digital processing, he uses all sorts of processing to make that sound, including products from line 6, eg: Yes, once an artist has painted a picture, it is easy to copy it, as in the Line 6 products. These are basically digital guitars, they can simulate the sound of a multitude of guitars, and plugged into line 6's other products they simulate a bunch of amps and pedals to make those new sounds the Edge is on about in that film, but you don't need any gear at all, just the guitar and a laptop and a copy of the plugins in your virtual rack. Simulate the sound of a multitude of guitars, hmmmm!!! That is a laugh. You'll like this: http://line6.com/pro.../abbeyroad.html, these boys have basically sampled the stuff at Abby road, and you can plug it into your reason stack on your laptop and play with it. Amazing stuff. No it is not amazing. It is simple copying. Where is the creativity there? Besides, If that was the case paying for anything but the mioost basic guitar would be pointless. Having more than one guitar would be pointless. I guess nearly all good guitar players have it wrong then!!! Have you used the software we're talking about? No. but I do have several bits and piece like a digital delay, and a digital AC30 emulator. The delay is great. The AC30 is a bit of fun, but nothing like the real thing. Copies never really are. No, it doesn't. Thank goodness the rest of the world understands that and the format is almost dead. The one thing that thankfully you cannot pretend to try and change is the fact that music is and always will be analogue. It is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Yes, once an artist has painted a picture, it is easy to copy it, as in the Line 6 products. Simulate the sound of a multitude of guitars, hmmmm!!! That is a laugh. Is there a point here? This is how music is made, like it or not. No it is not amazing. It is simple copying. Where is the creativity there? Besides, If that was the case paying for anything but the mioost basic guitar would be pointless. Having more than one guitar would be pointless. I guess nearly all good guitar players have it wrong then!!! Not everyone's got access to a particular vintage of Marshall stack plugged into a rare old gibson. Even if they do, they might not want to carry them around on the road. It's not simple copying either, you're writing off some very impressive technology. No. but I do have several bits and piece like a digital delay, and a digital AC30 emulator. The delay is great. The AC30 is a bit of fun, but nothing like the real thing. Copies never really are. And I'm sure you know better than The Edge, Ed O'Brien or Kirk Hammett. The one thing that thankfully you cannot pretend to try and change is the fact that music is and always will be analogue. It is Except when it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Yes, once an artist has painted a picture, it is easy to copy it, as in the Line 6 products. Simulate the sound of a multitude of guitars, hmmmm!!! That is a laugh. Is there a point here? This is how music is made, like it or not. That is how bad music that will not be remembered next month, let alone next year or decade is made. Not everyone's got access to a particular vintage of Marshall stack plugged into a rare old gibson. Even if they do, they might not want to carry them around on the road. It's not simple copying either, you're writing off some very impressive technology. But we are not talking about "on the road" we are talking about studio recording. No. I am not writing off any technology. There is a place and a market for it all. But the stuff you are talking about is pretty much relegated to the pub singer. And I'm sure you know better than The Edge, Ed O'Brien or Kirk Hammett. Not at all. We think the same way. That is why we all have more than one guitar. The one thing that thankfully you cannot pretend to try and change is the fact that music is and always will be analogue. Except when it isn't. Are you trying to change the laws of physics now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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