M 2.0 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The content of this thread has become the unstoppable force vs the immovable object lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I don't like MP3s, and understand that music is analogue, it has to be to be heard, as you actually state in your above post). That makes me a snob? Yes. You're dismissing things based on some assumed belief that your four foot speakers and valve amps somehow keep the analogue pure from the instrument to your ears. You cite The Edge, who famously plays very simple and boring riffs, runs them through a wad of digital effects and they come out sounding nothing like the original. Are you saying his music doesn't exist when it's being processed by those digital effects programmes he's running them through? Why is it ok for that music to be digitally processed at a bitrate you're utterly unaware of and then mastered to CD, but it's not ok for me to encode that same cd losslessly and download it? It's a stupid distinctin, the CD is just the delivery method, an outdated one. I can download a better quality audio file than exists on a CD, the physical format limits me, a download doesn't have those limits. Writing off all downloads is therefore stupid. How? How can you create sound, meaningful sound, digitally? Without converting it to analogue, how do you know it is even a sound! No, music does not exist digitally. Data exists digitally. Music is analogue, always has been, and will be until man evolves, or someone invents a way for the brain to convert digital to analogue. You're getting things mixed up now. You're saying sound and music as if they're interchangeable. Sound is mechanical, but music isn't necessarily. music is lots of sounds with additional information. Both can exist digitally, by recording or encoding them exactly so that they can be reproduced. You don't have to represent music using sound, you can do it in a variety of ways, from notation to light synths. It can exist digitally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I don't like MP3s, and understand that music is analogue, it has to be to be heard, as you actually state in your above post). That makes me a snob? Yes. You're dismissing things based on some assumed belief that your four foot speakers and valve amps somehow keep the analogue pure from the instrument to your ears. You cite The Edge, who famously plays very simple and boring riffs, runs them through a wad of digital effects and they come out sounding nothing like the original. Are you saying his music doesn't exist when it's being processed by those digital effects programmes he's running them through? Why is it ok for that music to be digitally processed at a bitrate you're utterly unaware of and then mastered to CD, but it's not ok for me to encode that same cd losslessly and download it? It's a stupid distinctin, the CD is just the delivery method, an outdated one. I can download a better quality audio file than exists on a CD, the physical format limits me, a download doesn't have those limits. Writing off all downloads is therefore stupid. I am dismissing absolutely nothing. I dont like MP3s. However, I like FLAC, I like WMA, I even like Apple Lossless. I don't like MP3. In what way am I writing off downloads? I cannot be 100%, and I am not about to re-read this thread. But I don't think I have mentioned downloads once before this post. And you accuse me of getting things mixed up. You're getting things mixed up now. You're saying sound and music as if they're interchangeable. Sound is mechanical, but music isn't necessarily. music is lots of sounds with additional information. Both can exist digitally, by recording or encoding them exactly so that they can be reproduced. You don't have to represent music using sound, you can do it in a variety of ways, from notation to light synths. It can exist digitally. You said it yourself. Music is lots of sounds. However, you look at it, it is not digital. Exactly. You are getting there. Data representations of music can exist, but they are not music. A CD is not music, a 12" record is not music, a 10.5" open reel tape is not music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 You can have a digital copy of an analogue signal of indistinguishable quality to the analogue one, and often it doesn't even need to be that great quality. Digital does not necessarily mean discrete either - it can describe vector forms pretty much identical to your analogue sources (apart from the noise). I know I think you, as many 'audophiles' do, are being naive and saying that the noise inherent in analogue recordings and playback is an actual part of the 'quality' of the recording, and not what it actually is - undesirable noise. I am not really sure why this is relevant. I am a musician more than an audiophile. My Analogue source of choice is one of my many acoustic guitars. Of course a live performance will always sound different (and 'better') to either an analogue or digital playback of a record, but a high quality digital recording is inherently better than an analogue one played back through the same speaker setup. I'm sorry, Live performances rarely sound better to a studio mastered recording. Mainly due to low quality electronics and speakers. By the way, I have never argued that analogue recording is better than digital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Gold gold gold bored bored bored. Question is, will they close the store here or not? Response here on Manx Radio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Response here on Manx Radio Ok, on topic. HMV over here is always pretty busy. The queues in the run up to Christmas were ridiculous. Same goes for Waterstones. However, that is two prime properties and two prime rents. It may benefit them to negotiate a long term lease on a more appropriate building like the old Woolworths, and merge the two together, which is what I reckon will happen across the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I am dismissing absolutely nothing. I dont like MP3s. However, I like FLAC, I like WMA, I even like Apple Lossless. I don't like MP3. In what way am I writing off downloads? I cannot be 100%, and I am not about to re-read this thread. But I don't think I have mentioned downloads once before this post. And you accuse me of getting things mixed up. The implication as I saw it was that you wanted to stick with CD's because you don't like MP3 downloads. 'I don't like mp3 and like WMA' again shows up your ignorance and snobbery. WMA can be lots of different things, it can be a container, it's got multiple versions of the microsoft codec both lossy and lossless. The performance of lossy versions of WMA varies widely at different bitrates and both lossy codecs have come on a great deal in the years since they were introduced. Most of my stuff is lame -v0, which is considered by pretty much anyone with a clue as transparent and overkill vs the already transparent V2. I think the slight extra filesize is worth it just in case. Exactly. You are getting there. Data representations of music can exist, but they are not music. A CD is not music, a 12" record is not music, a 10.5" open reel tape is not music. That's daft. A word file isn't a document until you print it out? A score doesn't become music until you play it? Don't be soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 'I don't like mp3 and like WMA' again shows up your ignorance and snobbery. what a load of cobblers That's daft. A word file isn't a document until you print it out? A score doesn't become music until you play it? Don't be soft. That is correct. You are the one being soft. What is on a score is open to interpretation by the musician. He is the one who turns it into music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 That is correct. You are the one being soft. What is on a score is open to interpretation by the musician. He is the one who turns it into music. So Mozart didn't write Music, eh? 2/10, must do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 So Mozart didn't write Music, eh? 2/10, must do better. He did, but every version you hear of any piece of his music will differ at least slightly. Take Walter Murphey's "A Fifth of Beethoven" as an example. Or "Stairway To Heaven" by Rolf Harris Gold star! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 He did, but every version you hear of any piece of his music will differ at least slightly. And they're all music, so? I think you're confusing music and sound. An ipod contains music and videos albeit stored as data, I think pretty much everyone will accept that in their understanding of the word. How far do you go with this definition? Is a synthesiser not a musical instrument unless it's plugged into an amp? What if you play directly to a file and play that through your ipod. The synthesiser has never made a sound, does that mean it's not musical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I don't know if music has to be defined as the interpretation of a complex series of sound waves hitting the eardrum of a sentient being, or whether the 1s and 0s in an mp3 file count. I don't much care. I do however know that comedy was invented by Monty Python, and they used to end sketches that had run their course with an army major saying "stop that, it's silly". Could the same not be said about this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I do however know that comedy was invented by Monty Python, and they used to end sketches that had run their course with an army major saying "stop that, it's silly". Could the same not be said about this thread? Yeah. Anyone remember Shocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Anyone remember Shocks? Bloody hell, Slim being almost on topic!!! Yes, That was a great record shop that closed down when Harrison Music (now HMV) opened. They could not compete and would not diversify. eta - I spent many happy hours in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Yes, That was a great record shop that closed down when Harrison Music (now HMV) opened. They could not compete and would not diversify. There's nothing to add to that. Say something stupid again! HMV are inevitably going to go a similar way, even with diversification. They'll probably consolidate waterstones and HMV into a single store some time soon, and the stores will slowly drop off to being in larger town centres only and try to expand more into the space Currys/PC World etc fill, but as games and films get delivered more and more online, there simply wont be a need for large high street chains selling them. Christ knows what Game is going to do in a few years. Only sell hardware? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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