La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't have to prove anything, the balance of proof and facts is well in my favour. LDV I am not just refering to Christian gods, but all religious gods. The only gods I know of for certain are at the Gaiety. You mean the balance of evidence? You can't say though. You can't say that no Gods exist or no God's are real unless you have specific idea as to what is being referred to. We can say that it is pretty certain that the Christian, Muslim, and Jewish God are made up or that the Ancient Greek Gods were fabrications. But some people are pantheists who believe that God IS the universe. And that universe has a consciousness. We don't know this. It might be bogus. No good evidence for it, but we can't be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I hope they don't either. Not for the God's that I have heard of anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudcheck Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I don't have to prove anything, the balance of proof and facts is well in my favour. You mean the balance of evidence? Evidence, proof , facts. Whatever you want to call it. I agree that I cannot be certain that there are no gods. But I can be 100% sure that there is not one person on this earth that can provide me with physical evidence that there is a god of any type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Evidence, proof , facts. Whatever you want to call it. I agree that I cannot be certain that there are no gods. But I can be 100% sure that there is not one person on this earth that can provide me with physical evidence that there is a god of any type. Exactly, nobody can be certain of it, but the overwhelming evidence is that there is a god. Whether you beilive in the big bang theory, worlds within worlds, or whatever, someone or something must have created the universe, and what is potentially beyond it. Whatever that higher being is, it is there. Whether people want to call it god, alla, yahweh, jehova is irrelevant. They aer all the same thing, and boil down to the fact that you cannot get something from nothing. Something created the universe and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Are you joking? You mentioned the 'something from nothing', so I wonder if you are. If not, please give (and explain) the overwhelming evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Whether people want to call it god, alla, yahweh, jehova is irrelevant. They aer all the same thing, and boil down to the fact that you cannot get something from nothing. Something created the universe and beyond. Cambon - how do you know you can't get something from nothing? Also isn't it possible that you could get two things - one a plus and one a minus which cancel themselves out in total, but have reality in their own limited circumstances. Talking about a universal Dao, or pantheism can also trip up this idea that you need a God outside of the universe to start it off - with all the questions about where does God come from - questions you seem happy to ignore. These beliefs say the universe is manifest in itself, nature is the prime mover itself - God if you want to call it that, without any need for an external God to take on that role. I've posted before about how Stephen Hawking has taken this idea, which was brought into the philosophy of science by Laplace, to show how modern cosmology is self contained - and provides sufficient explanation for a universe without any prime mover wierdness. Sure its all just speculation, but its just as valid as speculations about any theology of a separate external God being necessary to start it all off ... and it gets us well away from any ideas that such a being is worried about what we think, what we do, or whether we worship him or not. I'm sure Spook thinks its pagan idolotry, but I don't have his willingness to just have faith when there are multiple explanations and no evidence that any one is right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Are you joking? You mentioned the 'something from nothing', so I wonder if you are. If not, please give (and explain) the overwhelming evidence. In all of science, there is no evidence that something can be made from nothing. Scientists can change the state of something, create something from something else, but it cannot make something out of nothing. Until science provides an answer to creating something (like a universe or even a planet) out of nothing, then is has to be assumed that the universe what created out of something by something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Erm - Cambon do you understand quantum fluxes? Matter is continually being created out of nothing - not even out of energy - matter and anti-matter spontaneously separate out of the quantum flux. This isn't a change of state, it is a new creation! Sure we are only talking about fundamental particles, but I think it sets quite a big precedent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Erm - Cambon do you understand quantum fluxes? Matter is continually being created out of nothing - not even out of energy - matter and anti-matter spontaneously separate out of the quantum flux. This isn't a change of state, it is a new creation! Sure we are only talking about fundamental particles, but I think it sets quite a big precedent! So who created that then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Are you joking? You mentioned the 'something from nothing', so I wonder if you are. If not, please give (and explain) the overwhelming evidence. In all of science, there is no evidence that something can be made from nothing. Scientists can change the state of something, create something from something else, but it cannot make something out of nothing. Until science provides an answer to creating something (like a universe or even a planet) out of nothing, then is has to be assumed that the universe what created out of something by something. Nobody has ever said 'something can be made from nothing'. This matter of their being 'nothing' prior (if there ever was a 'prior to the big bang') is something that theists keep repeating. And Chinahand mentions what is a possibility, the subject of quantum flux. But if there really was Nothing, which means there was a Creator, then who created the Creator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 And Chinahand mentions what is a possibility, the subject of quantum flux. But if there really was Nothing, which means there was a Creator, then who created the Creator? Who else, The Godfather!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yes, it would be imagining something going further and further back. There would be a creator of this God and then a creator of that God. But anyway...going back to the point you made in an earlier post, even the universe was created by something - would it make it a God? It might have popped into existence and then disappeared or not cared less what was going on in the universe. What makes a God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudcheck Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 There is no god anyway, just gullible people. but the overwhelming evidence is that there is a god. Please show me some overwhelming evidence, then I can delete my original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 There is no god anyway, just gullible people. but the overwhelming evidence is that there is a god. Please show me some overwhelming evidence, then I can delete my original post. I doubt you will see any evidence, maybe a few quotes from some biased fictional novel like the Koran or Bible or Torah but no hard or physical evidence because non exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 If I was omnipotent and still managed to create a world that's this much of a mess, I'd keep quiet too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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