Cronky Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Well it looks like it's 'out with the new - in with the old'! Gove stresses 'facts' in school curriculum revamp Education Secretary Michael Gove has said he wants more "facts" in England's national curriculum, as he launches a review of what children are taught. Mr Gove told the BBC there was currently too much focus on teaching methods and not enough on content. but . . . Labour and teaching unions accused him of trying to foist 1950s-style education on to schools. Mr Gove argues: "One of the problems that we have at the moment is that in the history curriculum we only have two names [of historical figures], in the geography curriculum the only country we mention is the UK - we don't mention a single other country, continent, river or city." The education secretary has in the past been vocal about the lack of a "connected narrative" in the teaching of British history. Writing in the Daily Telegraph on Thursday, he lamented the absence in the curriculum of figures such as Winston Churchill, Florence Nightingale and Horatio Nelson. It's news to me that schools don't teach these basic aspects of British history and culture. That being the case it seems like a very good idea for the education system to pull it's socks up and return to some basic teaching. We are constantly told we have a very good education system in the Isle of Man. I'm not so sure quite frankly. It seems pretty much the same fare served up in England. That being the case I welcome the reforms. It seems like a dose of common sense to reduce the bureaucracy and stipulate that the basics will be taught but give teachers the freedom to do it in their own way. I see little point in some of the current politically correct curriculum. It seems more to do with trying to mold the right kind of citizen than providing a good basic education. In many cases the kids seem over stimulated yet undereducated. Will these reforms be introduced simultaneously in the Isle of Man or will the Department of Education wait five years and see what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 We are constantly told we have a very good education system in the Isle of Man. I'm not so sure quite frankly. It seems pretty much the same fare served up in England. By comparison with England the Island's schools perform well; by comparison with western Europe the English system is very weak. I was staggered to see the high school engineering projects when I was living in Hamburg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 "Now what I want is facts... Facts alone are wanted in life... This is the principles on which I bring up my own children." Thomas Gradgrind, Hard Times, Charles Dickens (1854) Back, it might appear, to the 1850s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 We are constantly told we have a very good education system in the Isle of Man. I'm not so sure quite frankly. It seems pretty much the same fare served up in England. By comparison with England the Island's schools perform well; by comparison with western Europe the English system is very weak. I was staggered to see the high school engineering projects when I was living in Hamburg. I don't see how you can claim that the 'Island's schools perform well'. Since England and the Isle of Man operate a common educations system that's a bit like saying that Dorset schools are better than Norfolk schools. Furthermore, the Isle of Man is not featured in league tables and is not inspected by OFSTED. So where's the measure? I know of some state schools in England which I think are much better than some Isle of Man schools. I also now of quite a few in England which are really dire. I agree that the English system is really weak and hope that Michael Gove's reforms it improves it for everyone and that we get the benefit of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm not so bothered about the rote learning of facts as the understanding if history. I learned lots of facts in history, the names of Henry VIII's wives, the names of endless inventors of looms, and education acts. But what I missed in later life was an understanding of how we got from the Norman Invasion to the Tudors and from their to the Industrial Revolution and from there to the modern world around me. Trouble is everything Gove says & does appears ideological in intent and the good of the children's education is secondary. I might have misjudged him - he's clearly a more complex character than the rest of the Tory cabinet. Hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatopian Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The education required to equip children to be competitive in the 21st century is very different from the 1950's. Rote learning has a limited use; I'd rather children were primarily being taught how to find, assess and apply information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Rote learning has a limited use I'd rather they knew how to take 10% off a number in their heads or what 6 things @ £6 each were without resorting to a till or calculator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 We do not strictly adhere to the English national curriculum in IOM, but of course for public examination subjects have to cover its basics The original English national curriculum was very prescriptive, the amendment made it more flexible. The sheer fact that a certain fact or date is not specified does not mean it is not taught. Anyway I do think that all students should be taught and leave school competent in maths, English, a foreign language, science and a social subject such as history or geography and that other subjects should be on top. However they must be made interesting, engaging and relevant I did 11 0 levels Maths, Eng lang, Eng lit, Phys, Chem, Biol, French, Geog, Hist, German, and general studies and 4 A levels Phys, Chem, Biol and GS I have to admit that in Hist and Geog and Eng lit 0's I answered questions which were not in the syllabus I had been taught. In History where I had studied UK and European history (the rise of Nation States and democracy, WW1 and totalitarianism from 1870 to 1939) I answered 3 (out of 5)questions on WW2 as I had just read the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich instead of revising from my set books, and dad had talked a lot about what happened in the North African desert and in Europe (where he had served) and taken us on one summer holiday where over 3 weeks en route to Sweden, we visted every bridge that had been blown, and he had crossed as a Bailey temporary bridge, between Northern France, Belgium, through Holland and into North Germany. We visted Hannover and the Herrenhausen Garten where in the occupation army he had set up the first "normalisation" theatre to hold plays and opera, doing lighting and sound ( he was in Signals/ REME), In Geography I answered a lot of questions on the countries I had visted, we did 10 weeks a year in a motorhome traipsing around Europe with my dad; and in English Lit I answered two questions about staging scenes in Shakespeare plays, not covered by teaching, ( and one we had not studied at all) but because I was a volunteer in our local rep and assisted every production, and had seen the set plays 3 or 4 times each. Mind you I did have to answer questions on the Dickens set text and two poems from the English Romantic movement, Wordsworth, Gray, Keats etc Education is not just about teachers teaching in school to a set programme but about what you learn with your family and life experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Education is not just about teachers teaching in school to a set programme but about what you learn with your family and life experience. As a teacher would, and probably did many times say to you: John Wright 0/10. We're talking about changes to the school curriculum, not excuses for leaving school with a less than satisfactory education. The first thing I would do is to introduce the international baccalaureate which replaces the very discredited A levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Education is not just about teachers teaching in school to a set programme but about what you learn with your family and life experience. As a teacher would, and probably did many times say to you: John Wright 0/10. We're talking about changes to the school curriculum, not excuses for leaving school with a less than satisfactory education. The first thing I would do is to introduce the international baccalaureate which replaces the very discredited A levels. so what score did Brown minor get in this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm not so bothered about the rote learning of facts as the understanding if history. I learned lots of facts in history, the names of Henry VIII's wives, the names of endless inventors of looms, and education acts. But what I missed in later life was an understanding of how we got from the Norman Invasion to the Tudors and from their to the Industrial Revolution and from there to the modern world around me. Unfortunately, that's pretty much the problem with the English, and hence Manx education system, and one that reverting to a 50's style education system fails to address. Don't get me wrong, the system could indeed do with more rigour and there's nothing wrong with a detailed (i.e. fact based) curriculum, but tightening up things in that area is only just a start. The thing is, British secondary (and indeed tertiary) education was lacking in comparison to that of a number of European countries even back then and indeed before. This is especially the case when it comes to educating people to a high standard of understanding and an ability to think for themselves, with the British system being overwhealmingly concerned with a basic to decent competance with a lot of facts: something which partially explains why Britain has produced hardly any truly world class philosophers, mathematicians and 'deep' theoretical physicists in comparison to the likes of France or Germany over the centuries (but does produce a huge amount of decent to good minds, with a marked emphasis on technical ability rather than original thought and understanding). Indeed, in the second area Britain only really has Newton in the 17th Century and perhaps Coxeter and Boole more recently, whereas France can boast names like Galois, Cauchy, Grothendieck, Henri Poincaré, Ellé Cartan, Weil, and Chevalley in the last couple of centuries alone The current measures are a good enough start, but if these measures aren't followed up I don't see how they'll achieve anything of lasting worth other than making a flawed system slightly harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 So what score did Brown minor get in this ? Brown had better things to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 France or Germany ... The French secondary schools are magnificent, was giving a talk at a rural school some years ago and was more than impressed. Hardly a wonder that your average Brit works ~ 50 hours a week to be as productive as a Frenchman working a standard week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 France or Germany ... The French secondary schools are magnificent, was giving a talk at a rural school some years ago and was more than impressed. The same holds for French universities, and in particular the method of assessment (open book, so the crammers and rote learners have no advantage, but dealing with unseen and novel problems which allows those with real ability and raw talent, although perhaps not so good memories, the chance to shine). I knew of one guy from Cambridge (whose Tripos system is a bit iffy and often criticised in and of itself) who sat a couple of exams at a French university as part of his postgraduate work and noticed he was far more challenged and expected to really think by them than by anything he'd expererienced in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Here's what the Department of Education have to say: Watching brief on curriculum proposals ‘While we will certainly study these outcomes carefully once the review is completed, there is no requirement for us to act on them unless we consider that to do so would benefit our young people.’ The island has its own curriculum, A Curriculum for Learning and Achievement, which the department believes affords a more holistic way of educating children to ensure they develop ‘the six Rs’ – readiness, relationships which are positive, resourcefulness, resilience, remembering skills and reflectiveness. So what does that mean? I have never heard a local teacher talk about ‘the six Rs’. Is this spin or a new teaching philosophy that we should all be told about? Mr Barrow said: ‘It is worth noting that the Isle of Man doesn’t rigidly follow the requirements of the existing English national curriculum and has chosen not to use SATs (standard assessment tests) or many of the prescriptive strategies relating to how the curriculum should be delivered, as we consider these would narrow the breadth of the curriculum experience offered to our pupils. So does this mean that the Isle of Man follows the curriculum - but not the testing? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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