gazza Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 TRIPOLI // The Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi vowed to "die as a martyr" last night and ordered his loyalists to take to the streets and crush protesters demanding his removal. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/22/muammar-gaddafi-libyan-tv-martyr things look set to get worse Meanwhile David Cameron and 93 British companies are out in Abu Dhabi at an arms fair looking for new business. got to keep the £££ coming in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kashifhassan Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 There should be proper democracy in all Arab countries the kingship should be over now when the world is moving forward when governance systems run by the publicly selected representatives. Gadaffi should hand over the power back to the people of libya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Not really sure why you've emphasized Arab countries. China, North Korea, Zimbabwe - there are many countries where autocrats should start being subject to democratic accountability. The world is noticing what has happened in the middle east. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian rush Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Isn't it ironic that (new) Labour and the Tories are so cosy to Gaddafi c.f. their respective positions during the Miners Strike in 1984 when the NUM was appraching Gaddafi for loans [Admittedly Libya was also around that time shipping some pretty potent arms [WMD?] to the IRA via the Eksund consignment but that didn't seem to be a justification for trying to topple him c.f. Saddam and his non-existent WMD]. Anyone interested in the political smearing done at that time in the context of the Miners Strike should read Seumas Milne's book "The Enemy Within" and whilst I am no Trot (and rather dislike Scragill having met him in person at uni) there's elements in there that are quite worrying re: special branch infilitration of the NUM (comparable to the recent stories of undercover coppers boning tree-huggers) Obviously there has been a degree of rehabilitation of Gaddafi's regime since the 1980s but the recent cosying up in the name of trade is a little sickening, kind of turning on its head the idiom "it's not the money, it's the principle". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Iam Rush - Obviously there has been a degree of rehabilitation of Gaddafi's regime since the 1980s but the recent cosying up in the name of trade is a little sickening, kind of turning on its head the idiom "it's not the money, it's the principle".I don't think I understand your way of viewing this. You mention rehabilitated, but it's not like Libya was a particular badboy that required rehabilitation by the good guys. Britain and America are not principled good guys. Libya's policies just stood in opposition to their own at times. And trade is the most important matter. Not principles. Britain isn't principled, nor is America, and why would they be? There should be proper democracy in all Arab countries the kingship should be over now when the world is moving forward when governance systems run by the publicly selected representatives. Gadaffi should hand over the power back to the people of libya Proper democracy isn't publicly selected representatives. Far from it. You mean they should have a system like ours? I would agree it would be an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Well, Libya hasn't "fallen" yet. I also can't help thinking that Cameron throwing in the UK's lot with the rebels was just a little bit previous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Well, Libya hasn't "fallen" yet. I also can't help thinking that Cameron throwing in the UK's lot with the rebels was just a little bit previous... But what do you think there doing behind closed doors, they well may be siding with the the rebels in the public view but you can bet there also siding with the leader as well, to much oil at stake to just sod it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Have to say when a repressive state first uses aircraft, artillery and tanks to secure a city and then uses terror to hold it then it is difficult for reformers to show they have the support of the population. A bad business. As the movie title puts it - there will be blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Well the UN is considering a no fly zone: BBC link UN set to discuss action on Libya The US, UK and France are proposing a UN Security Council resolution backing action short of an invasion. Diplomatic sources say Russia and China - which often oppose the use of force against a sovereign country as they believe it sets a dangerous precedent - will abstain rather than using their power of veto. They suggest that if the resolution is passed, air attacks on Col Gaddafi's forces by the British and French air forces could begin within hours. It is not thought that the US would be involved in the first strikes, but the British and French are likely to get logistical backup from Arab allies. Its a pretty big deal - basically taking sides against Gaddafi's state. If this doesn't quickly cause a collapse its highly likely there will be lots of risks to shipping in the Med and violence and refugees flooding out into Southern Europe. With all the attention on Japan its going to be interesting to see how people react to the UK getting involved in a war in North Africa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Well, Libya hasn't "fallen" yet. I also can't help thinking that Cameron throwing in the UK's lot with the rebels was just a little bit previous... At the end of the day the military are the executive arm of government... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 UN back no-fly zone, looks like we have one more war to play in northing like doing something while the attation is eles where in the world The Libyan military has warned that any foreign operations against Libya will expose all maritime and air navigation in the Mediterranean Sea to danger, state TV reports. "All civilian and military activities will be the target of a Libyan counter-attack. The Mediterranean Sea will be in serious danger not only in the short term but also in the long term," as early as friday planes from the uk will be bomeing libya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 UN back no-fly zone, looks like we have one more war to play in Bet they still wish they had the Ark Royal. as early as friday planes from the uk will be bomeing libya Too late for the bloodbath that will be in store for the people of Benghazi I fear. A no fly zone will not help the ground battle that is likely there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Bet they still wish they had the Ark Royal.I don't know. It would be a logistical pain in the ass having those sort of carriers trying to support a no-fly zone in Libya, when they wouldn't be add much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I don't know if it is too late. Personally, I think it isn't and may well give a mighty boost to morale and the resurgence of the uprising. Part of the no-fly zone incorporates taking out command and control, and it doesn't take much to work out who might become a target as part of that type of operation. Suddenly getting the 'whole world' backing them via the UN - gives a lot more hope to the 'rebels'. If gadaffi says he is going to target civil airliners, then that makes him a legitimate target straightaway in my book. Albeit all a little slow happening, it also gives some hope that the UN has the potential to learn some lessons from the past, and act together. It also gives the opportunity for a little bridge building between the west and the arab world, ironically though while destryoing a few bridges in Libya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Suddenly getting the 'whole world' backing them via the UN - not really the whole world is it, the normal suspects voted for it, and 5 of them did not cast a vote, so by no means the whole world and not all ones agreed on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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