Tweek Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Meanwhile the BBC World Service is now apparently set to receive funding from the US State Dept if this deal goes ahead. Don't like the sound of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Pongo - you should try reading this, its an interesting read: Cold War Civil Rights. The basic thesis is that the US improved its civil rights record to a large extent because it was being, and wanted to be, contrasted well against the situation in the USSR. IE the political motivation wasn't "for the good of the Negros", rather because it helped keep allies in Europe and the rest of the world. This helps explain why US administrations were two faced supporting tyrants abroad - they were quite happy to have strategic relations with human rights abusers - they were only following a civil rights agenda domesitcally for expediency. I felt the book was over done - it discounted the democratic ground swell for civil rights in the 50s and 60s and the influence they had - but then Mdudziak is able to present evidence showing the involvement of the State Department in domestic policy, and she shows Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson etc did to some extent think of it in foreign relations terms. The question is how much influence did this have verses a million people gathering to hear Dr Martin Luther King. No doubt foreign affairs are complex - Democracies, especially flawed ones, aren't necessarily a panacea - the elections to power of Hitler and Hamas show that. But basically if you get a sustaining constitutional democracy which enforces term limits etc then I firmly believe it is for the good - for both the citizens of the country and internationally with the people who trade and treaty with them. I don't see it as a zero sum game - citizens and foreigners gain from democratic reforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I think I agree with what you are saying. And it is interesting that you raise the spectre of the Nazis at this time since in many ways we are living in time which seems to have many parallels with the end of the Weimar era. The success of the Nazis was in some ways an inevitable outcome of democracy. Certainly they could probably only have come to power under a democracy since they were essentially populist, anti establishment, dumbed down and anti-intellectual. They self consciously represented and appealed to ideas and sentiments which were typical and widespread. Much of their fuzzy ideology was built on beliefs which were shared by the society in general - including by people who would have voted for other right parties and even supporters of the liberal centre and the social democratic left. Much of what they stood for came out of common beliefs and and shared fears - ideas about racial and social hygiene for example - also a belief in a nationhood, vague ideas about community and a sense of insecurity and fear of organised others. These ideas were widespread especially in Germany at that time. In his excellent series The Power Of Nightmares*, Adam Curtis explains how during the post WW2 era politicians were about offering positive ideas towards making society better - but that today we again live during a time in which politicians seek to represent themselves as being best placed to protect society from dangerous, secret and probably largely imaginary or contrived enemies. * it's a BBC series. It's on YouTube if you haven't seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Watch this, it's awful: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20110326/video/vwl-tripoli-shock-minders-snatch-rape-vi-89eb865.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Watch this, it's awful: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20110326/video/vwl-tripoli-shock-minders-snatch-rape-vi-89eb865.html No thank you. You mentioned it was awful and therefore having seen so many bad things on tv and also the internet, I'll pass on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 It's awful in the sense of how a woman is being treated, as she is being silenced and taken away for speaking to journalists about her claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Pongo: but that today we again live during a time in which politicians seek to represent themselves as being best placed to protect society from dangerous, secret and probably largely imaginary or contrived enemies.I think this has always been the case, certainly since WW2. Though of course there becomes a greater reason and there is a greater excuse to use it more when it can pass as believable. The World Trade Centre attacks became an excuse for all sorts of legislation and foreign policy changes that were made acceptable to the public by having it convinced of imminent danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 No thank you. You mentioned it was awful and therefore having seen so many bad things on tv and also the internet, I'll pass on this. You should, it shows what a terrible thing the secret police regime is in places like this, even in front of the Western press. I'm sure you'll read about Iman al-Obeidi's plight a lot over the next few weeks. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8408506/Fight-as-woman-dragged-from-press-by-Gaddafi-forces.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 That video is deeply disturbing - you fear for the women - I wonder how they managed to keep the footage. Puts a human face to the victims of Ghadafi's thuggery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 It speaks a lot about the bravery of people at times like this, taking a risk in the current circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 US marines on ground in libya. so much for no boots ion the ground then. http://uruknet.info/?p=m76189&hd=&size=1&l=e not sure of how right this is, or where it came from but worth a mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 US marines on ground in libya. so much for no boots ion the ground then. http://uruknet.info/?p=m76189&hd=&size=1&l=e not sure of how right this is, or where it came from but worth a mention The report it came from says: Other than the small TRAP force sent to locate the Air Force pilots, no U.S. Marines from the 26th MEU have landed ashore. http://www.wcti12.com/news/27257042/detail.html?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Heritage%2BHotsheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 There will be special forces forward air controllers on the ground. Small in number, young and willing to challenge risks and danger. I've a friend who's ex-USAF - he thought they were mutters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 an important ally in the war on terrorism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I think this has always been the case, certainly since WW2. Though of course there becomes a greater reason and there is a greater excuse to use it more when it can pass as believable. The World Trade Centre attacks became an excuse for all sorts of legislation and foreign policy changes that were made acceptable to the public by having it convinced of imminent danger. @LDV. If you have not watched that series ... well I would like to recommend it. Adam Curtis is, in many ways, a polemicist. You may not necessarily agree with all or even anything which he has to say but ... well it's definitely worth watching. And as an example of docmentary making it is also very well crafted. It might be wrong - but I actually find myself enjoying these programmes. Part One: Baby It's Cold Outside Part Two: The Phantom Victory Part Three: The Shadows in the Cave http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmKycZykjNI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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