The Pope

[Dave the Cardboard Box]

There are some very curious and questioning Iberian types looking for you Rog. They seemed rather vexed.

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I bet Rog is not expecting them....

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Why would Rog be expecting Spaniards to be looking for him?

 

Ahhhh.... The Inquisition!

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NOBODY expects the ....Oh Bugger!!!!!

[Carter]

Rog said

that doddering old man

 

Digga said

poor sod looks

 

Cheap shots

 

The comments are pretty unpleasant too.

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Seconded.

 

Cheap shots to a guy who has seen a fair bit of stick in his time, i imagine his attepted assassination was was a breeze in comparison to his impending death.

 

Out of touch...yea but hell of a lot of dignity shown.

 

He means so much,to many, his like will never be seen again, the catholic church has to modernise no doubt, lets just allow the guy to do whet he feels right to him...i think he's earned it.

[Declan]

Why the doctors don't withdraw medical intervention beyond palliative care and let that doddering old man simply slither off into oblivion as he so obviously now  should defeats me.

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Do you think the pope may have any religious convictions against hastening death?

[Tempus Fugit]

He may not have actually wanted the job in the first place,

and doesn't have the luxury of being able to retire or lead a 'normal' life.

[Rog]

Rog said

that doddering old man

 

Digga said

poor sod looks

 

Cheap shots

 

The comments are pretty unpleasant too.

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Seconded.

 

Cheap shots to a guy who has seen a fair bit of stick in his time, i imagine his attepted assassination was was a breeze in comparison to his impending death.

 

Out of touch...yea but hell of a lot of dignity shown.

 

He means so much,to many, his like will never be seen again, the catholic church has to modernise no doubt, lets just allow the guy to do whet he feels right to him...i think he's earned it.

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Where is the line between pointlessly prolonging life and hastening death?

 

I suggest that the removal of the essentials for life such as a tracheotomy or a ‘feeding tune’ is hastening death especially in the case of someone who is obviously not brain dead, downright murder.

 

On the other hand the withholding of medication that would, if administered, clear up one of a rapidly growing number of serious medical conditions that an old man who is patently obviously in his dotage, is simply not pointlessly prolonging life.

 

Although I am mad as hell at the thought of someone withdrawing the essentials of life for me in my old age or after suffering a seriously debilitating stroke if I was racked by a degenerative brain disease and a obviously on my ‘last legs’ and if I came down with something like the pope seems to have done, i.e. raging infections, I would not be all that ready to take antibiotics and would settle for pain relief instead and a quiet and peaceful end.

 

My thoughts on launching this thread were really about if some poor old man who really should be allowed to slip off into oblivion is being kept alive simply to suite vatican power politics.

 

Carter =- you're maybe better placed than most to express a iew on situations such as this wheer old and infirm are involved. Put aside that the man is a church leader and just see him as a frail old man. Should he be allowed to slip off or maintained by often brave medical interventions?

[P.K.]

He may not have actually wanted the job in the first place,

and doesn't have the luxury of being able to retire or lead a 'normal' life.

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I seem to recall that someone shot him because he was Pope.

 

Anyway, it seems he has now had a heart attack. He is apparently conscious and lucid and he has requested that he stays in his home at the Vatican rather than going to hospital for what would be the fourth time this year - what it is to have faith. They have administered the Last Rites for the sick and the dying.

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[Speckled Frost]

I believe he suffered a cardinal arrest last night

 

Anyway, it seems the Pope is still able to make decisions. It was his choice not to go back to hospital so I'm not really sure there is any pointless life-prolonging going on.

[MrsTrellisfromNorthWales]

I believe he suffered a cardinal arrest last night

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I know that to LOL is common. But I was tempted.

[When Skies Are Grey]

There's far too much Pontifficating going on in this thread for my taste.

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Yeah lay off the Pope...its about time we bashed the Bishop instead!!

[Paul H]

My view is that you’re going to have to try mighty hard to find fault with this man. He has selflessly given his life to something he truly believes in and his faith has been the inspiration that gave hope to millions of people all over the word.

 

How many others can claim to have achieved this?

[Observer]

I don't think anyone has tried to fault him (the Pope) - I didn't think Rog's comments were outrageous or offensive at all, I suppose it's all in the interpretation, but I took him to mean purely and simply that the Pope could be subjected to excessive measures to keep him alive, possibly (and probably) over and above those that would be afforded to your standard very frail, very old man. (excuse the terminology)

 

It's a valid point and a compassionate one when you think about it.

[Rog]

I don't think anyone has tried to fault him (the Pope) - I didn't think Rog's comments were outrageous or offensive at all, I suppose it's all in the interpretation, but I took him to mean purely and simply that the Pope could be subjected to excessive measures to keep him alive, possibly (and probably) over and above those that would be afforded to your standard very frail, very old man. (excuse the terminology)

 

It's a valid point and a compassionate one when you think about it.

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And that was precisely what I had in mind. The pope has no religious significance to me. All I see is a tertribly frail old man who may be, or may have been, kept alive more out of convienience to others than in his best interest.

 

It'sa shame that it coincides with the 'Terri' case.

 

Waht I do feel is sorrow for the 1.1 BILLION people who will take his death so hard. he has served them, and others, well.

[shamus]

"I don't think anyone has tried to fault him (the Pope) - I didn't think Rog's comments were outrageous or offensive at all, I suppose it's all in the interpretation, but I took him to mean purely and simply that the Pope could be subjected to excessive measures to keep him alive, possibly (and probably) over and above those that would be afforded to your standard very frail, very old man. (excuse the terminology)

 

It's a valid point and a compassionate one when you think about it."

 

An excellant post from a moderator.

 

"Waht I do feel is sorrow for the 1.1 BILLION people who will take his death so hard. he has served them, and others, well."

 

Exactly.

 

Being an agnostic as such I can only wish this gentle old man well and also wish I had his faith.

 

I hope he dies without suffering and he meets his God.

[Carter]

Carter =- you're maybe better placed than most to express a iew on situations such as this wheer old and infirm are involved. Put aside that the man is a church leader and just see him as a frail old man. Should he be allowed to slip off or maintained by often brave medical interventions?

 

The following is a true experience.

 

A fine figure of a man, at least 6 foot 4 inches, served in the war, devoted father and husband.

Another early shift, i'm a bit tired and i have to bath, dress and feed this guy.Limbs contracted, lying in the feotal position, no communication unsure whether he is comfortable or not.

14 st to turn and change position two hourly.

Not so much of a flicker of recognition from the guy.Suddenly he appeared 'differant' he seemed quieter than usual, his eyes seemed to come back to life, he was hot to the touch and i was concerned.

The doctor visited and px antibioitics, same commenced.

Suddenly the chap started to convulse and gasp for breath, i started oxygen therapy and he settled.

The family were contacted, and came to his bedside, obviously they were upset and the oxygen mask was distressing to see, i explained that it was needed as, if removed the convulsions restarted.

Now i got a lot of stick, not from the relatives but from staff who felt i was just prolonging his 'suffering'

Jack would have passed away that evening, but with oxygen he lived for another 5 days, in that time he was comfortable, family and friends were there 24/7 able to spend time, reflect, have a laugh and be apart of his final journey that they all knew they would follow one day.

 

Quite simply, he died with dignity with loved one's around him, wires, machines don't matter they are just a part of the ward furniture.

 

On a final note, a lady i nursed for 12 months and never uttered a word to anyone took a grave turn for the worse, her husband came to visit as she was slipping away, he had been at her bedside for a while and we suggested he went home and rested and we contact him if his wife deterioted.

As he was leaving, she turned her head and said 'you go now Jim'

 

10 minutes after he left, she slipped away.

 

We can't possibly be in a postion to judge on the situation regarding the Pontiff, he is the religous leader of some 1 Billion people, i'm sure he has made his wishes for his final journey known well before it arrived.

[Sasha]

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