hollandaise Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Leviticus 18:27 “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. And what’s more tattoos are out as well --- 18.28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One thing which interests me about these discussions is how times change but writings remain the same. This is a fundamental flaw in religions based on textual teachings, as Observer has already observed. Prohibitions like the above are nearly always meaningless in contemporary society as they are based on an ancient culture which is long gone. The same conditions and problems of hygiene or social prejudice no longer exist. So why do people still rigidly follow these injunctions to the letter? It is quite strange, in my opinion, and suggests a certain weak-headedness. It's old, therefore it must be true. It's been written down and copied throughout the centuries, therefore it must be important. Monty Python had it right in the Life of Brian. "He has given us a sign! He has given us a shoe!" I am actually a regular church-goer in the C of E. and was confirmed only last year. I take Holy Communion every fortnight without fail. But although I study the Bible regularly, I have never thought of it as anything but a text written by other people. Not divinely given. This makes me a heretic, as I see it. But the Church of England - and indeed any organised religion in the end - will not survive the test of time if it cannot change with the times. And the times make us cynical and suspicious of those who would indoctrinate us and refuse us the right to question their beliefs, even when they run contrary to what we now perceive as fundamental human rights. This is what sickens me about the Archbishop of Canterbury's current toe-licking of the black Fundamentalist Evangelical movement in the African countries and - increasingly - in America. That is not our tradition. Apart from odd moments of insanity in our history, the British are liberals and should be allowed to remain so. The current increase in fundamentalist attitudes is infecting us at every level of our society. Not merely in terms of religion but in our most basic choices as human beings: how we raise our children, how we conduct our most intimate relationships, how we relate to one another within society. This is an insidious change which Labour has begun and the Church is continuing and this election of a new Pope, whilst distant and a subject of little interest to most people on this forum, is of huge importance in the long run and could either sound the final death-notes of liberalism within modern Christianity or - with the election of a free-thinking liberal instead of a fundamentalist - signal some sort of rebellion against this creeping erosion of human rights. N.B.: Edited slightly to give Speckled Frost a sporting chance of following my argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speckled Frost Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Throw in a few more paragraphs and I might just read it. That's a veritable tsunami of words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I have to say that with Aids raging through the African sub-continent surely the last thing the Pope should have been preaching is not to use condoms? As Miss Whiplash has pointed out hopefully the next Pope will be less fundamental and a lot more liberal. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 After they year I've had I cease to believe in anything devine, spiritual or otherwise. We are brought about by chemical chance, the right enzymes in the right primordial soup at the right temperature, simmer for a couple of billion years and bingo....you have the bunch of self important people who are on the planet at the moment. Live the life the way you want not on the basis of some outadated ramblings. I mean you wouldnt use your Betamax instruction manual to tell you how to work your DVD player now would you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speckled Frost Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I think Catholicism will die before it becomes liberal. There's no way sanctity of life will be compromised by a back-down on the use of contraception or accepting abortion for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman8180 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Seeing as the planet Earth is about 4900 million years old and Christianity only reared it's ugly head about 2005 years ago I think it is one of those 'fad' things that will wear out eventually. A bit like the 'teenage' years when your kids turn into aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 A bit like the 'teenage' years when your kids turn into aliens. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not long now....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollandaise Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Throw in a few more paragraphs and I might just read it. That's a veritable tsunami of words. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, it was aimed at those of us who can read in paragraphs, Speckled Frost. Not in sound-bites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonan3 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I can't believe that the teachers, government, and parents all stood back and let it happen. In fact it probably still happens. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not so much any more. Religious education (in non faith schools) is more teaching about religions rather than promoting one above the rest. Uk (and IOM I think) schools are supposed to teach more about Christianity than the others but it's not half as bad as it was when I went to school. I'm talking about primary schools, not sure what it's like in secondary. Also,I think - but not sure, could a teacher clarify? - if a teacher feels really uncomfortable teaching it they can opt out. And parents can opt their children out too. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You don't know how glad I am to hear that. Almost fifty years ago I was sent to a Catholic primary school. I was taught wonderful things such as: If I missed going to mass on a Sunday and happened to die before I could confess such a mortal sin to a priest, then I would go straight to Hell for all eternity. Just to reinforce the message, if the teachers knew that I'd missed mass I'd be hauled out in front of the class and have my hand belted with a short leather strap. When the late Dave Allen used to say that we had the 'love of Jesus' beaten into us, he wasn't really joking! I was also belted for, amongst other things, failing to learn the Lord's prayer in Latin properly and 'bunking off' from an after school Benediction service that we were marched to every wednesday. Any respect I may have had for religious beliefs were beaten out of me. I learned to question everything and, although I have studied world religions I have found that none of them have any real answers or, indeed, any significant role to play in a just society. Sorry if I got a bit carried away, but I honestly couldn't care less about the lives or deaths of 'religious leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollandaise Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 When the late Dave Allen used to say that we had the 'love of Jesus' beaten into us, he wasn't really joking! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> See Joyce's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man for many similar scenes. Mortification of the flesh is a serious business for Catholics. I come from good Catholic-Irish stock on my mother's side. She lapsed as a Catholic after the priest told her she was not allowed to use contraception in spite of the fact that she had a large family already, was desperately poor and had been warned by the doctor that she would probably die if she had any more. After a lifetime of obedience, including a convent school upbringing of similar style to Lonan's by the sound of it, she told the priest to F. off and had a hysterectomy ... Ah, I miss the talented Dave Allen. Now there was a man who could sit for hours on a stool without slouching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...ssPageName=WDVW <{POST_SNAPBACK}> LOL...the seller's ID is very funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 I'm religious and I loathe and despise male homosexuals.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Out of interest, do you also loathe and despise female lesbians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Total tosh. I'm religious and I loathe and despise male homosexuals. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty Fatty Toad Boy Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 There was a programme on Irish TV a few years ago which exposed the high levels of violence, including sexual, meeted out on children by priests and nuns in Catholic schools. It apparently very common and linked their forced celebacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speckled Frost Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 Well, it was aimed at those of us who can read in paragraphs, Speckled Frost. Not in sound-bites. I did read it eventually Hollandaise and, despite nearly drowning in a sea of text, your comments made a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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