If You Were In The Uk Electorate

[theintelligentthug]

just donethat test thingy. apparently im an Authoritarian left if that means anything to you guys...

[Declan]

as im from sunny Preston, England and they breed them 'big and dumb' here.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And how is sunny Preston these days?

[theintelligentthug]

as usual really. nt uch going on that hasnt/isnt already happening/happened. *sigh* the world is what you make it i guess

[Pragmatopian]

I am in the UK electorate and will (somewhat reluctantly) be voting labour again this time round.

 

I have been dismayed in this last term about they're behaviour over Iraq and the recent shambles over 'anti-terrorism' terrorism legislation (read 'excuse to subvert the rule of law') but I have to ask myself:

 

(1) Would things be any better under a Tory government? (NO!)

(2) Do the Lib Dems stand a chance in hell? (NO!)

(3) Are the UK Independence Party the BNP by another name? (YES!)

 

So labour it is then! In any case, my constituency (Tower Hamlets) is pretty much as safe as labour seats come short of Sedgefield.

[Darth Vader]

But the sad thing is you are not satisfied and voting for the lesser of all evils dwatterson.

 

Not your fault but really a sad state of affairs.

[Pragmatopian]

But the sad thing is you are not satisfied and voting for the lesser of all evils dwatterson.

 

Not your fault but really a sad state of affairs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And what might the lesser of all evils be, Vader?

[matty]

I did the poll tonight, couldn't link to it last night for some reason.

 

Thought myself kind of somewhere in between Labour & Lib-Dem, quite fond of environmental stuff, - was also quite surprised at the results!!

 

Labour -6

Conservative -35

Liberal Democrat 45

UK Independence Party -4

Green 22

[P.K.]

I listen as often as I can to R4 the "Today" program. It is frequently portrayed as the best broadcasting around. I would not argue with this. They recently had on Greg Dyke, Piers Morgan and a US correspondant whose name escapes me - no surprises there. The election issues were being discussed and the surprise that with all the bluster, lies, downright lies, statistics etc etc the polls had hardly moved. Apart from the disastrous Tory poster "Vote Blair and Get Brown" which a lot of folks thought "I don't really trust Blair so that's a good idea!" (with thanks to Michael Howard - yep it was his idea) it was all rather predictable. Apart from the absence of the Iraq issue.

 

Now I personally think they had to go in. Saddam had invaded two of his neighbours, used wmd on the Iranians and his own people, was a despot and a tyrant and so on etc etc. The "wmd in Iraq" question? Yes they were there or they couldn't have used them in the past now could they. The "45 minutes to arm a battlefield wmd" issue? Yes that's how long it takes. That's how long it takes the Russians, the US and presumably the Iraqis to prepare a battlefield binary wmd weapon. There have been lots of accusations that "the public" were "lied to" on these issues. They all agreed that they had not been lied to at all. Now Greg and Piers have no reason whatsoever to like or support Blair. But it is obvious that Blair believed what he had been told.

 

There is a whole world of difference between knowingly putting forward intelligence you know to be false (lying) and believing something that maybe you should question a little more (stupidity). Now if we condemned our politicians for stupidity we probably wouldn't have any left and The Conservative Party would only be a dim and distant memory.

 

So sorry all you anti-war, bleeding-heart Liberals, even Greg Dyke won't support you. Funny that.

-

[ste1205]

In case you need any help making your mind up play this.

[Rog]

Or even THIS ONE!

[Rog]

Here are some bare faced lies – no other word for it – published by NuLabour, some on huge posters, some as announcements.

 

Lie - Warning: The Conservatives will bring in charges for hospital operations.

Truth - No.

 

Lie - Interest rates halved with Labour

Truth - No.

 

Lie - The Conservatives will cut £35bn from public services

Truth - No.

 

Lie - £1 billion from savings in local government inspection to pay for today's pledge on council tax

Truth - No

 

Lie - 3.7 million pensioner households will get more from Labour than from the Conservatives

Truth - No.

 

Lie - The Conservatives will cut £800 million from the international development budget

Truth - (Much as I wish they would – and more besides,) No.

 

Lie - Scottish Labour has ensured that no full-time undergraduate student has to pay up-front tuition fees in Scotland

Truth - No.

 

A far from exhaustive list.

 

And these are the people asking to be trusted to run the UK.

[P.K.]

I would be a little more careful about any any claim i.e.

Lie - 3.7 million pensioner households will get more from Labour than from the Conservatives

Truth - No.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, they could be taxed more...

 

What concerns me is the air of desperation creeping into Howard's campaign. All of a sudden a pledge to change the Stamp Duty threshold. Raising the issue of Iraq now when if they were going to use it then it should have been to the fore from the start. It all looks like their original strategy has failed i.e. the polls haven't moved - so instead of sticking to a plan they have to make it up as they go along.

 

An ineffectual Opposition is very bad for the UK version of democracy.

-

[Rog]

Couldn’t agree more. The problem as I see it is that Howard is facing a terrible problem as NuLabour quite simply lie about their intentions and spin the results. Faced with that anyone is inevitably always on the back foot.

 

Take taxes. Blair promised no increase in income tax – and yet National Insurance, income tax by another name, rocketed. There really is little point in going through a massive list of the lies from this shower – and yet thanks to very effective presentation, and let’s face it, Bleah has the skilled presentation of the very best snake oil salesman that there ever was, NuLabour continue to be seen as the best thing since sliced bread by those who simply can’t see through the lies.

 

What CAN Howard do other than try to confront Bleah’s lies by changing strategy? Bleah has. Take immigration and the illegal immigrants and undesirable aliens issue. Only when Bleah saw that Howards stance struck a cord did Bleah suddenly take it on board.

 

Bleah and his government really are disgusting. In another age he and many of his followers would rightly have been executed for treason.

 

I doubt if there will be other than a dent in the NuLabour majority come this election but I do seriously worry about what is going to happen over the next few years as the economy falls apart as it simply must under the Brown ‘borrow borrow borrow’ philosophy that is all that is buoying up the economy and giving the illusion of a sound economic strategy.

 

What’s that old Chinese curse - “May you live in interesting times”. We will do that for sure.

 

Mind, I do wonder if either party has a 'killer fact' that they're going to launch in the final run-up.

[Rog]

Doesn't the current situation have a lot in common with the 1980s?  At that time, support for Thatcher's government was declining, but nobody believed that any of the opposition parties were capable of forming a better one.  The phrase at the time was TINA (There Is No Alternative).  However much the voters may despair of Blair, there is little confidence in Howard or Kennedy being able to provide a viable alternative. 

The chances are there will simply be a huge increase in voter apathy, another reduced turnout, and another government (probably Labour) claiming to have a mandate for all of its policies even though it has been chosen by an even smaller section of the electorate than before.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You’re so right – and look at what emerged – NuLabour. Will the result of NuLabour be NuTory? Maybe a party that takes the good bits from the BNP (and there are some good bits) – or maybe what will happen is that the world events will hit the UK so hard that NuLabour will be totally discredited simply by association with what takes place.

 

Try this lot for size ---

 

• a combination of further slip in the exchange rate resulting in our

having to buy a firmer currency to make the payments, higher costs

of imports whilst facing a more and more competitive export market

in the face of the new Tiger manufacturing and exporting countries,

especially China and India

 

* Forced reduction in costs of UK activities associated with earning foreign

currency to service the massive national (private and government)

loan bucket In other words, redundancies as jobs are exported to

low cost areas with corresponding impact here in the UK that will

create yet further UK costs – and a reduction in living standards.

 

* Increase in interest rates to raise the pound on money markets

resulting in a reduction in living standards

 

* Increase in taxation to subsidise lower wages by ‘credits’ – figure

the effects out – they’re obvious.

 

* Yet more means testing or attrition of universal benefit payments

(state pension for example or pushing out or even abolishing

a formal retirement age)

 

* Increased offset of direct taxation from central government to

local authorities resulting in increase in local taxes to show the

Government in a better light.

 

My guess is that is an entirely credible scenario.

 

BTW – the reference to TINA (There Is No Alternative) related to alternatives to the proposals being made by the cabinet rather than to a possible other government – and in my opinion, for the most part TINA was right.

 

It’s one thing to look into history and criticise what happened and it’s another to view things from a distance, but as someone who was having to try to make a living in the face of rampant politically motivated trade unionism and its effects then things take on a rather different hue.

 

She did a very great deal of good for the UK though at a cost. It was a cost that was going to have to be faced up to sooner than later or the whole country would have gone down the plug hole – it really was that serious. It very nearly did. The benefits to the UK far outweighed the costs.

[Darth Vader]

If this forum's ballot is a reflection of the mood of the country we could end up with a hung parliament with the Libs not having a workable majority.

Question, would the Torys and Labour then unite to bring the Libs down or would they do the sensible thing and vote for those Lib policies that they do agree with?