HeliX Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 If he has the courage of his convictions let him leave and defend himself in front of Swedish prosecutors. Sweden has a fair justice system. Had Sweden guaranteed to not extradite to the US that's exactly what would have happened. Their refusal is essentially a guarantee that he will be extradited to the US. Where he will go to Gitmo forever and ever amen. Handing himself in wouldn't be courage, it'd be suicide. Not to mention the Swedish charges are complete bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Fair comment Helix, and you may be right about the "charges" as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Consider the UK's options. 1. Comply with the UN working group's opinion. This would presumably entail guaranteeing Assange's safe passage to Ecuador where he has been granted asylum. This would mean completely ignoring the european arrest warrant that has been lawfully issued in Sweden and upheld by the UK's Supreme Court. The working group has no authority, it has merely issued an opinion. 2. Comply with duly issued legal process for Assange's arrest and put in train due process for his extradition to Sweden. Whilst he cannot be arrested inside the Embassy, he can and should be arrested as soon as possible after he leaves. The UK is behaving as I would expect any state to behave which functions under national and international law. Only option two is defensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 There are no charges in Sweden. He is wanted for questioning in connection with an alleged rape, alleged sexual molestation and alleged sexual coercion. The Swedish statute of limitations has kicked in in respect of the less serious offences, but the Swedish prosecutor still requires to question him in connection with the alleged rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 If he has the courage of his convictions let him leave and defend himself in front of Swedish prosecutors. Sweden has a fair justice system. I would suggest he is more afraid of the black bag over the head and the "Welcome to Gitmo" sign than Swedish Justice. Assange in Gitmo - fantasy world. Why would Assange be treated any differently than Manning, or Pollard, or Gowadia? Are these people in Guantanamo? They directly passed on important state secrets they had been entrusted to protect - in the case of Gowadia directly to China. They were all dealt with via the standard US legal routes. Assange wants to create this fantasy about himself. I agree the US wishes to make life difficult for him and make it clear it will punish those who expose classified information, but Assange hasn't done that - he's just received it. The US isn't going to give him carte blanche - and must be loving the knots he's tied himself with via getting his knob away - but I'm reasonably sure he's responsible for that, not the CIA - he acknowledges he had sex with these women. He wasn't seduced - he was gagging for it. Assange has drawn this out for 6 years or whatever, no one else. I wonder if he will ever see a US court? I'm certain some US Prosecutors would like to see that day, and who knows maybe a Grand Jury will agree he's committed a crime with his leaks (no not those type of leaks! those problems concern Sweden and not the US!) - but it isn't clear he has and I'm pretty certain he'll spend longer trying to evade justice than he would be punished for facing it. He and Snowden should have the courage of their convictions and face justice - it worked for Clive Ponting A public interest argument would be very powerful, and could justifiably be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Handing himself in wouldn't be courage, it'd be suicide. Suicide?! Oh come on, Helix, you don't buy this martyrdom crap too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Handing himself in wouldn't be courage, it'd be suicide.Suicide?! Oh come on, Helix, you don't buy this martyrdom crap too. Do you believe Sweden wouldn't extradite him to the US? With regard to the allegations, it's worth remembering that rape is of much broader definition in Sweden. He did not have sex with someone who was unwilling, he had sex in the wrong way (allegedly) with someone who was willing. If he hands himself in, it will go very poorly with him and he will end up in the US. Were it just a case of standing trial in Sweden, and (potentially) being imprisoned in Sweden, I very much doubt he would be dodging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Believe it or not the US doesn't need to use Sweden as a way of trying to extradite Assange. If a grand jury issues a warrant whether Assange is in Sweden or the UK either government would likely try to enforce it and attempt to extradite - though it would take years and in either jurisdiction go to their Supreme Courts with politicians and all sorts having their say. Sweden is a total irrelevance - in fact my understanding is that extradition is easier via the UK - we have a very friendly extradition arrangement. On the sexual issues - consent matters. Neither women wanted to consent to unprotected sex. If Assange had taken that seriously he wouldn't be in the mess he is. He's responsible for that - he should have put on a johnny and is a fool for riding bare back. The US is fine just waiting as Assange wastes his life martyring himself. Assange is the one delaying and delaying this and wasting his life. The US won't do a thing until the judicial process with Sweden stops tying Assange up in knots - and maybe they won't even then - honestly it isn't obvious there is a charge to charge him with and the US constitution has a lot to say about freedom of speech. Assange is wasting his life stringing this out. The US must be loving it. We will only know their strategy when the Swedish case ends. Then they will show whether they hold Aces to tie him up in another extradition case, this time to the US, or a busted flush with no charges against him. Assange is the fool delaying this far bigger round of the game, not the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Why is Sweden an irrelevance? That's where he is to stand for his alleged offenses, and so surely is the route to his extradition? You're right, he's responsible for his actions and is an idiot. I brought it up, though, because rape is a very emotive crime (and rightly so). But with a different definition in Sweden it's important to be aware that our first emotive response may not be quite as warranted! I don't disagree that the course he's taking doesn't do him any favours, but I can't see handing himself in doing him any favours either. I certainly wouldn't be able to say I'd trust that the US wouldn't find a way to dick me over were I in his situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 Sweden is an irrelevance for the US in extraditing Assange. The US will just issue the warrant to the UK, they don't need Assange to be in Sweden to request his extradition to the US. The point is extradition processes are a first come first served process - so as long as the Swedish request is live, there is no point the US showing their hand. Assange isn't facing a serious threat of long term imprisonment in Sweden - he has spent far longer locking himself away in the Ecadorian embassy than he'd serve in Sweden prior to being paroled even if he was found guilty which is debatable. He might be facing a threat of long term imprisonment in the US - the rmanx's of this world think he faces death, but most serious lawyers simply don't think the US can charge him with anything resulting in serious imprisonment - but Assange has a matyrdom complex and thinks he's facing 35 years like Manning - though Manning is likely to only serve 8. Heck, if Assenge had got on a plane to the US the day he leaked the stuff and demanded a trial on the most serious charges possible to prove his first Amendment Rights to Free Speech he would have been a hero and even if he'd been found guilty he would probably be out by now and a figure with far more moral authority. He's played a suckers game and the US must be loving it. He's all noise and no results - just like this irrelevance from the UN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 He is doing an AMA on Reddit today. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/5n58sm/i_am_julian_assange_founder_of_wikileaks_ask_me/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Not totally sure if this is the right thread, there might be an old one more suited or it could even deserve its own but... https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commutes-bulk-of-chelsea-mannings-sentence.html That's pretty incredible. I though he'd (she'd?) be in jail for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I'm pretty sure Manning discredited themselves quite a lot by becoming a tranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmanx Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I'm pretty sure Manning discredited themselves quite a lot by becoming a tranny. His gender is irrelevant to his immoral imprisonment. He did the right thing, even though it was illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Assange stated that he would hand himself in if the tranny was released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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