La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I'll answer the rest of your post later. Don't bother. LDV, you obviously live in a different reality to the rest of us. Not at all. In reality the principles of debt work as I have described. And in practice they work in such a way. It is only when the matter moves onto national debt that it shifts from the principle. The less democratic the nation, the greater this principles is altered when responsibility is laid at the foot of the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Spook - Right. Let's deal with that. How about mortgage advancements to people or loans made by banks and other institutions to people? Those monies form part of the gross national debt of a country and it is the servicing of debt in both the public AND private sector that must be considered. On that bassi, and it is absolutly rock solid a basis, it DOES come down to public debt. The public got the cash either way, the public must now pay their debts.If you are talking about private debt then yes it is their debt. But a matter worthy of mentioning is that IF the public cannot pay this debt then that's the creditors problem, i.e. the banks. It's the same with the situation for the banks in the UK. If they gave out too much credit by not adequately assessing the risk then that's their problem if the public don't have the ability to pay it back. Let the banks handle the responsibility for their risk. Sure the result will be severe for the economy, but there is no easy way out for the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 that may be true pngo, but the fact it is the USA govenment that has to pay back 500 billion at the end of aug or it will defualt is the main point. By going down the QE path, aka printing money, the USA already IS in default. but in the world of big banks and the likes there not in default, as they still get there cash back, this could be a real default, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 @gazza - it's political theatre and brinkmanship, this talk of a possible US default. Nothing else. The US is not going to default. Greece is a very small state with a tiny regional economy and relatively few natural resources. By contrast, for example, there are 31 US states which are each individually larger than Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 The US is insolvent and if it were not that the dollar was used as the reserve currency the US would have gone to the wall years ago. Were it not that the dollar is, or raher has been up to now the reserve currency the US people could not have been living to the lifestyle that they have. One way to look at it is that the US population are enjoying the labours of other people in other lands working themselves to death in order to get access to the reserve currency for their general dealing. To engage in QE as the US has done is nothing short of further exploiting these people while retaining the unaffordable and unjustifiable high life that the US population enjoy. I see changes coming in. The emerging economies of the new industrial powerhouses are seeing their currencies harden, China especially, and china has huge dollar holdings both in terms of US government “Fed” boinds and also stakes in US banks. The Euro was a threat and maybe at some future time he amount of manipulation of the economies of exposed countries by providing loans by buying bonds and the like in the Eurozone and Greece is a prime example of one such country could be a part of defending the status of the dollar in light of the Euro possibly becoming a real threat as a second reserve currency. The economy of the US will fall. It may be next week, it may not be for ten years, but fall it will as will Sterling for the simple reason that both the US and the UK (and a few more besides) import far more than they export, have governments that spend far more than they get in taxes, and have their private sectors based on debts that are actually provided by foreign sources of credit using the US and UK banks as nothing more than conduits taking their percentage of transactions. Heaven help us all when the crash comes, and come it surely will. When it does we on the island will be in an awful position unless we are are integrated with the UK that in turn is integrated with the rest of Europe. If we are NOT integrated with the UK our situation will not be awful, it will be untenable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Heaven help us all when the crash comes, and come it surely will. When it does we on the island will be in an awful position unless we are are integrated with the UK that in turn is integrated with the rest of Europe. If we are NOT integrated with the UK our situation will not be awful, it will be untenable. o it wont be that bad, o ok maybe it will for some of you. but just remember when or IF it ever takes a crash,just think you wont have to worry about the repayments on your house. hows that for progress, fair you might be killed in the mass riots to get the last loaf of bread, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Heaven help us all when the crash comes, and come it surely will. When it does we on the island will be in an awful position unless we are are integrated with the UK that in turn is integrated with the rest of Europe. If we are NOT integrated with the UK our situation will not be awful, it will be untenable. Rubbish. There is a massive difference between the Greek situation and the US (and uk one). And that is that the US and uk can devalue their currencies. Greece cannot do that. The reason they aer rioting is because they don't want to pay tax. Remember, most Greek people don't pay tax. Now they are going to have to. On top of that they have been given a much higher standard of living than they had 20 years ago. Now it is payback time. The whole eurozone is going down the pan because the Euro is not and never has been a sustainable idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 i see spain and italys bond intrest rate took a huge lift today. ones to watch next, getting even more glum by the week http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8648418/Only-Germany-can-save-EMU-as-contagion-turns-systemic.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 I stick by my initial post ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_Kelly Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Italys bonds near the magic number they passed the 6% and once 7% is hit its about game over for them. If italy gos france would be next on the list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 The whole eurozone is going down the pan because the Euro is not and never has been a sustainable idea. The euro is a sustainable idea. What is unsustainable is the way it has been administered and who was let in to the eurozone. There was enormous pressure to let countries in that had poor financial control over their economies and whose management of their economies was not audited. The euro requires a different attitude to national sovereignty that a number of EU countries are willing to consider but others baulk against. The euro is also very convenient when it comes to trade - although it is currently suffering from being stronger than sterling (up 25% over last 5 years) and the US Dollar (up 12% over last 5 years). I still like the idea that I can move through Europe with the same money in my pocket - something I cannot do in the Sterling area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 If the Eurozone had a common taxation and fiscal system then perhaps it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 So Goldman Sachs & the Greek Govt in the early 00's fudged the figures and hid the debt in order for them to join the EZ ... Now with the country on it's knees, the people are expected to face further austerity following the sanctioning of the latest trounce of bailout money ... The people, it's people are at breaking point. All this to satisfy to Brussels bureaucrat puppets ran by Merkel. Sad days, months and years ahead. I'm no apologist for the Greek Govt. ... They were as corrupt as they could be but the people do not deserve what is coming to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Leaked memo shows current measures probably not in Greece's interests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Germany are now slowly accomplishing what Hitler failed to do back in the 1930's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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