La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Although the problems that Greece has are because of the Greek Government rather than the German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Correct, but the Germans have siezed the initiative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Interesting. Although some might say that Germany, being at the heart of the EU project from the start and being influential in playing a part in the euro-wide economic policy, may have foreseen a crisis like this coming down the track a long time ago and have positioned themselves perfectly to seize the initiative. But that might sound too much like a conspiracy so it can't possibly hold any weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I am not sure I am following this. In reference to Lxxx comments about the Nazis, what bearing does Germany's actions in this situation have in terms of their significance? Would you expect the country to do other than it is doing now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 No I would expect it to be doing exactly as it is doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make though. The Greek government got itself into this mess and Germany has to cover its ass. The safer option from their perspective is to prop Greece up. I don't whether you are getting at the possibility of there being some plan prior to this occurring of controlling Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The Greek mess was entirely predictable. I'm just throwing it out there that twice in the past 100 years Germany has played it's part in trying to conquer/control europe. It failed twice through military means but now finds itself, as an emerging superpower, strategically placed to take advantage of the whole euro crisis. It is dictating terms to other nations about how best to control their affairs, which are coincidentally advantageous to Germany, leaving yet again this nation potentially sitting atop of the european tree, this time arguably by stealth as opposed to by sheer luck. I'm just looking at the facts, not making any 'conspiracy theories'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It wasn't predictable to those who allowed Greece to join the Euro. They didn't know the extent of that country's debt. Of course it is dictating terms, it is the country in the best economic position in Europe and the biggest economy. It will lose out if whatever Greece does so is making sure that it is in control of what goes on. Any other country in a similar position would do the same. Germany’s role with Greece is not part of some plan to gain control over Europe. It would have been of more benefit were Greece to not go under and just let the Eurozone tick on. Germany would always be on top. But Germany is a dwindled power just like all the other European countries. It won’t end up as any superpower. It will probably remain a long term middle-rate power, however. And the potential for it to ‘take over’ Europe economically is circumscribed by being a member of the Euro and is made impossible were it not to be a member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 You 'could' be wrong ... Germany is essentially dictating terms to the entire EZ. Now, in return for them (as the main contributor to the ECB) bailing out Greece, which actually amounts to buying their debt, they want guarantees - in the form of assets. They will take what they can - whether it be property, energy supply, even islands ... 'We' all know that Greece will default, eventually - it has to. Germany knows this only too well. When it does, and maybe before ... a similar situation will unfold elsewhere - Portugal perhaps? and so it starts ... Before you know it, the Fatherland will be a superstate. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 You 'could' be wrong ... Germany is essentially dictating terms to the entire EZ. Now, in return for them (as the main contributor to the ECB) bailing out Greece, which actually amounts to buying their debt, they want guarantees - in the form of assets. They will take what they can - whether it be property, energy supply, even islands ... 'We' all know that Greece will default, eventually - it has to. Germany knows this only too well. When it does, and maybe before ... a similar situation will unfold elsewhere - Portugal perhaps? and so it starts ... Before you know it, the Fatherland will be a superstate. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Exactly the point I was 'hinting' at. Germany is an economic powerhouse at a time when economies not just in europe but around the world are going down the toilet. It sits central to the whole eurozone holding all the cards in a one-sided card game, soon to be playing it's own version of monopoly across the continent. It has found itself in this position (or very strategically leveraged itself into this position) but either way as you quite rightly point out it could very soon be a de facto superstate at a time when the US economically is withering on the vine, leaving them in a very strong position as a leading player in global politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Plus I never did trust that dodgy Heinz (Henry) Kissinger with his gutteral German accent n all, dictating policy to every US President over the past 30 years. Agent Kissinger, mission accomplished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Yes, when there is talk of Germany becoming a superstate and assuming that Germany is not going be dragged down by aiding Greece and other countries. Germany would have done better were this issue with Greece to have not happened. It supports Greece because it thinks it has to stave off damage to its own economy and maintain the integrity of the eurozone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Yes, when there is talk of Germany becoming a superstate and assuming that Germany is not going be dragged down by aiding Greece and other countries. Germany would have done better were this issue with Greece to have not happened. It supports Greece because it thinks it has to stave off damage to its own economy and maintain the integrity of the eurozone. That's one way of looking at it....on the other hand...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Does anyone really believe that the rest of the EU didn't know Greece was cooking it's books to gain entry (therefore knowing it would blow up like this eventually), at a time when it has come out that none other than Goldman Sachs was helping them to fudge it's figures??!! The very same Goldman Sachs who have as it's alumni none other than Lucas Papademos the new UNELECTED Greek Prime Minister, to say nothing of the new head of the European Central Bank Mario Draghi and new UNELECTED Prime Minister of Italy Mario Monte. You don't have to wear a tin hat to see all the facts laid out in front of you. This whole thing is jobs for the boys, with the boys in question being the international bankers, with Greece being the first whipping boy in line. This trader hit the nail on the head in this interview on the BBC last year, which stunned the idiots in the studio with his answers. Fast forward to 2min in to hear the main point he's trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 From the facts that you have, it may appear very likely that those people knew the degree of Greek debt. It may be that many other people also knew. But what is meant by the 'rest of the EU'? You seem to imply that a bloc, the EU knew what it is was presented with by Greece joining. I don't see enough evidence of that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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