Lxxx Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 From the facts that you have, it may appear very likely that those people knew the degree of Greek debt. It may be that many other people also knew. But what is meant by the 'rest of the EU'? You seem to imply that a bloc, the EU knew what it is was presented with by Greece joining. I don't see enough evidence of that yet. Correction, I meant the rest of the key decision makers i.e the people at the centre of Brussels, heads of central banks, the real power brokers in charge of this EU 'project'. It's not beyond the realms of probability that these people knew, especially if the Goldman Sachs gang were parachuted in as soon as the crisis takes a turn for the worst. Their appointments had to be sanctioned by the central powers in Brussels. The whole thing stinks, and the poor Greek people are taking the brunt of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The Greece tragedy carries on apace, they are effectively toast and now have nowhere else to go after the latest bailout. In the small print of the Greek deal lies the important detail. There lies a heavy penalty clause; Greece's lenders will have the right to seize the gold reserves in the Bank of Greece under the terms of the new deal. Greece has 111 tonnes of gold. In other words Greece has given up on its reserves of last resort. If they default they will have nowhere else to go. Its international assets will be seized and it will not be able to trade internationally with any certainty as it's backing has gone. Under the terms of this new deal Greece has effectively forfeited that last resort and if they wanted to pull a last card from the pack by insisting on a Greek jurisdiction for any final arbitration, they have forfeited that too, by agreeing that future bonds issued will be governed by English law and in Luxembourg courts, conditions more favorable to it's creditors. The option of leaving the Eurozone and surviving independently has now gone. If they do default, which is still likely, they will have to accept whatever terms they can scrape together from the E.U. in order to survive. Greece is now a colony of the E.U. not a member. The Goldman Sachs boys Papademos and Draghi have done their job well. Now onto Portugal with their gold and onto then the biggie, Italy, with over 2,000 tonnes and now run by their pal Mario Monti, job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Correction, I meant the rest of the key decision makers i.e the people at the centre of Brussels, heads of central banks, the real power brokers in charge of this EU 'project'. It's not beyond the realms of probability that these people knew, especially if the Goldman Sachs gang were parachuted in as soon as the crisis takes a turn for the worst. Their appointments had to be sanctioned by the central powers in Brussels. The whole thing stinks, and the poor Greek people are taking the brunt of it. It is possible. I am not sure whether it is likely or not. Though there would be interested parties in Greek indebtedness, there does exist a criteria for admission to the Euro that comes under scrutiny by a specific department. I find it unlikely that this would have been overridden. I think at best (worst) some people knew what position the Greek economy was in and said nothing. I certainly don’t think there was a plan to admit Greece so it could default and benefit certain businesses and people. If there was a plan, it would have been to keep Greece ticking over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The toughest question is what Greece should do. If it defaults it hurts all of the EU countries (and its people) and defaulting will cause a lot of damage to the Greek economy. It won't recover soon. And we are well aware of the problem of them staying in the EU and accepting bail outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think 'they' knew if any country was at risk of coming under massive financial and economic pressures first it would be Greece, so they presumably had a plan in place to deal with it, which we are seeing now. The thing that most people are not grasping is that we are seeing countries being effectively taken over by new leaders WITHOUT any public say whatsoever, not even a sham of an election to go through the process. We are seeing UNELECTED technocrats (like Papademos and Monti) installed to carry out the orders of the international finance cronies without the say of the relevant parliaments, it's not even going to votes. They're just wheeling out the Goldman Sachs gang, putting them in charge and effectively challenging the people to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's a crying shame that the public at large appear apathetic in regard to the current European situation, as they do in respect of the Syrian bloodshed. Maybe their understanding and education is lacking ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 What we're seeing is the international bankers gobbling up resources, countries, state assets, you name it...all in the name of......bailing out the same bankers that caused the mess. Slowly but surely we're seeing international finance 'organisations' and whoever are behind them taking over parts of the world piece by piece. It's a massive power grab the likes we have seen in the past usually carried out by guns and bombs, the 21st century way of doing things is by using finance and stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It gets worse for poor Greece.... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/scandal-greece-receive-negative-cash-second-bailout-it-funds-insolvent-european-banks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It's a crying shame that the public at large appear apathetic in regard to the current European situation, as they do in respect of the Syrian bloodshed. Maybe their understanding and education is lacking ... It's not really about education and understanding. People are not expected to care. It is not considered as important to them as other matters are. The same can be said about so, so many other political issues. Though, in respect of Greece and Syria, this does sit on the back of the fact people are naturally selfish and care about what is most important to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom de plume Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 ... couldn't agree more ... The human being is a pretty despicable self centered, greedy lump of skin and bone on the whole generally. Only when their own interests are threatened do they take a passing interest. You only have to look at the drama here with the pre-school decision. We need more love brother. It's a crying shame that the public at large appear apathetic in regard to the current European situation, as they do in respect of the Syrian bloodshed. Maybe their understanding and education is lacking ... It's not really about education and understanding. People are not expected to care. It is not considered as important to them as other matters are. The same can be said about so, so many other political issues. Though, in respect of Greece and Syria, this does sit on the back of the fact people are naturally selfish and care about what is most important to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ... couldn't agree more ... The human being is a pretty despicable self centered, greedy lump of skin and bone on the whole generally. Only when their own interests are threatened do they take a passing interest. You only have to look at the drama here with the pre-school decision. We need more love brother. It's a crying shame that the public at large appear apathetic in regard to the current European situation, as they do in respect of the Syrian bloodshed. Maybe their understanding and education is lacking ... It's not really about education and understanding. People are not expected to care. It is not considered as important to them as other matters are. The same can be said about so, so many other political issues. Though, in respect of Greece and Syria, this does sit on the back of the fact people are naturally selfish and care about what is most important to them. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I do think other factors, such as proximity, nationalism, and capability to help also matter. There is a attitude and understanding that we can do little for people in Syria or for many other people fighting for their lives and dying for a cause. Or for impoverished people starving or rotting in some awful place because of the failing of their government or failing harvest. People do not feel their have much power to combat things along...and they don't. People only have power when they come together. But for us in the West, our culture and attitude is one where there is a great emphasis of looking out for ourselves. So many people couldn't give a shit about what is going on in their community nevermind in far off places. It makes the prospect of people getting together to sort out and resolves problems very difficult. People DO get together, however, and it is provided aid and help to others is very much part of our nature. But in a cultural setting where individualistic outlooks are seen to be normal and safer it makes it difficult to care. It is interesting how people react in society. On our Island a few score will actively try and look for a lost dog because they genuinely care about the animal (and probably the owners as well). And many others offer their vocal support of the cause. This is how things ought to be, in my opinion. But then how many others make efforts to help people to avert starvation; help protect natural habitats; condemn wars; or support political campaigns against gross injustices? There are issues going on across the globe and they have far, far more importance than missing animals. Yet people just aren't as interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 In a materialistic world we are all driven by materialism, which breeds selfishness. Why bother about your neighbour not having enough money to heat his house when the new Range Rover has come out and it'd look great picking up the kids at King Bills every day. I despair sometimes when I look around at us little worker ants running around constantly in a rush, and when I have to go to London for work purposes it amazes me even more. People just aren't interested in anything outside of their own bubble, but then again the system in the west has been designed that way, as us serfs aren't any use if we're not working hard, they don't want time for reflection. It's why our media tell us which celebrity is shagging who but not what's really happening in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 It gets worse for poor Greece.... http://www.zerohedge...-european-banks But the whole point of both the first and second bail out was to service the debt. Putting it in the constitution just writes into law "We promise to service and repay our debts before we pat each other on the back and give each other another massive pay rise." Which is basically what they have been doing every year for the last 10 years. Greece has to start collecting taxes. That is all. Their total debt is not massive (£350B IIRC). By comparison, RBS has cancelled and written down twice that in the last three and a bit years. As for your comments about the gold reserves of Greece and Italy, they have been pawned out to banks for decades. That is not actually what the banks are after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Great article. http://rt.com/news/argentina-advice-greece-default-033/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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