MilitantDogOwner Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Its just an idea. Somethings got to be better than paying lads to sit on their backside drinking Stella, fighting down the highstreet and watching Trisha all day. You think that's what they all doing? And even if I thought that it is right to use force to make people to do something like that, I think you'll find that few people would be happy to go along with it. Ok lads two choices: Option 1: We give you money...for nothing. We'll give you more if you get some slack legged sally up the duff a few times. And of course you'll need a house...don't worry we'll cover the tab on that as well, can't have your horde of little darlings on the street can we. And you'll need to feed and clothe them as well, but don't worry they're only little and dont eat much so most of it can go on booze, fags and new tvs. We might bother you occasionally about some scheme, but you can tell us to sod off because you had a cough back in 1998 and you've got a sick note from your doctor. And we'll give you more money if you have one of those as well. Sorry for using your valuable time and interrupting todays episode of Jeremy Kyle. Option 2: Through physical and mental exercise we can train you to be physically fitter and stronger. We can teach you self discipline and self confidence. We can teach you a trade that is useful in civviestreet. We will pay you, feed you, clothe you and shelter you. You might go on to join the Army and you might not. Option 2 is not the easy path and can be difficult. Yeah I can see why they would be opposed to the idea. Free money is still free money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Why would such a scheme need to involve the military? After all, we're living in an age when, despite any protestations you might make to the contrary, the armed forces are not held in very high regard. Why can't similar training be offered without having to subject young people to the Pavlovian techniques of military discipline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 the armed forces are not held in very high regard. Only by the likes of you and LDV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Why would such a scheme need to involve the military? After all, we're living in an age when, despite any protestations you might make to the contrary, the armed forces are not held in very high regard. Why can't similar training be offered without having to subject young people to the Pavlovian techniques of military discipline? Did you watch a program a while back called "Carrot or the Stick" (or something like that). Two teams of lads where given training based on two different methods. One based on the carrot (nice meals, comfy beds, basket weaving, etc) and one based on the stick (military style beasting exercise sessions, military field rations, military style field accomodations). Then the groups were set a number of tasks, and in most of the tasks the stick group won, due to better discipline, better fitness and better group cohesion. I'll see if I can find a link to the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Why would such a scheme need to involve the military? After all, we're living in an age when, despite any protestations you might make to the contrary, the armed forces are not held in very high regard. Why can't similar training be offered without having to subject young people to the Pavlovian techniques of military discipline? Did you watch a program a while back called "Carrot or the Stick" (or something like that). Two teams of lads where given training based on two different methods. One based on the carrot (nice meals, comfy beds, basket weaving, etc) and one based on the stick (military style beasting exercise sessions, military field rations, military style field accomodations). Then the groups were set a number of tasks, and in most of the tasks the stick group won, due to better discipline, better fitness and better group cohesion. I'll see if I can find a link to the program. The problem here is that you are painting those who do not work as simply all feckless individuals who need a bit of discipline in order to get them to go to work. You may be right, as it does require discipline and unswerving obedience to one's boss in order to undertake waged work. My issue is that I don't think people should be led to think that way and I don't agree that there is adequate justification to force people to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauld Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 ffs^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paswt Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 it does require discipline and unswerving obedience to one's boss in order to undertake waged work. My issue is that I don't think people should be led to think that way and I don't agree that there is adequate justification to force people to do it. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 If you are employed, you have to follow what you are told. Is that not the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauld Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 No it is not, you do as you agreed to do when you take the job, if the requirements of your time change, then you accept that or find different employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 And what is the universal agreement of all jobs? You are expected to recognise the authority of particular individuals (and the Company) and follow their decisions. You can leave the job, but the situation will be the same. Wherever you go you are subject to someone's authority, unless you find self-employment. Schooling is often enough in moulding children's minds to defer to someone's elses authority if it asserted, but that might not be enough for many people (fortunately Many are more independently-willed minded. MDO could make a point that an extremely regimented and hierarchical based exercise such as a military National Service could instill that obedience and break self-will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 If that related to my 5 simple questions then fair enough, it's a reasonable request. pipedown. You put people off wanting to reply In terms of this conversation, I only refer to society as synonymous with the public of a nation. I am not being much more specific than that here. As for the other questions, there is really no need to go down this route considering I had this conversation with you almost a year ago. Your foul mouthed expleteive is edited out. So not willing to answer even the most basic and simple of questions with an answer in the form of an explanation but with a reply that itself requires explanation and enlargement as it is obtuse to the nth. degree. Your cover has been blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Trying to get a straight answer out of LDV is like trying to nail a puddle to a wall. My theory has been that he is a well reseached troll. And a consistant one at that. Always saying just enough contrary to the majority to piss people off, but never revealing enough real information about himself that would make his troll facade fall apart. Looks like you were bang on the money. Still, he's ben exposed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I sincerely hope you have a wonderful life on whichever planet it is that you inhabit. Dear me - "Your cover has been blown." WTF are you on about? Eh? - "Still, he's ben exposed now." To what exactly? It's clearly escaped your notice that this is actually an anonymous posting forum. You know Care in the Community simply isn't working... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 So not willing to answer even the most basic and simple of questions with an answer in the form of an explanation but with a reply that itself requires explanation and enlargement as it is obtuse to the nth. degree. Sounds like a description of a Christian defining his faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 So not willing to answer even the most basic and simple of questions with an answer in the form of an explanation but with a reply that itself requires explanation and enlargement as it is obtuse to the nth. degree. Sounds like a description of a Christian defining his faith. Try asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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