Medic Refused Rifle Training

[spook]

If a chimey sweep can make it to become an MLC with that background (and maybe just a little help from The Lodge) who's to say?

[MilitantDogOwner]

And don't forget that we need to start sending children up chimneys to clean them again. Knob.

 

Did you ever see the show Lad's Army.

 

They took a bunch of well 'ards off the street, used military discipline on them and turned quite a few around from being a bane on society to potentially useful members of society.

 

Unlike you, sniping with your sniddy little comments. Keyboard commando of the worst kind.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Terse made a good point. If you are going to force kids to do National Service, force kids to clean chimneys or shine shoes, etc.

 

I wish you were taking the piss, MDO. Yes, I watched Lad's Army, but how exactly did they become useful members of society?

 

It was just a programme where some layabouts (not the bane of society) willingly went in to be barked out by someone (other than their parents) and they decided to motivate themselves enough to do what they were asked to. Wow.

 

Let's not talk about something as unlikely (and horrifying) as National Service, it isn't going to happen again and nor should it. Yes, if you force people to do things then you respond, but that's because they have no choice. But it's a recipe for making people servile and stupid.

[MilitantDogOwner]

I wish you were taking the piss, MDO. Yes, I watched Lad's Army, but how exactly did they become useful members of society?

 

It was just a programme where some layabouts (not the bane of society) willingly went in to be barked out by someone (other than their parents) and they decided to motivate themselves enough to do what they were asked to. Wow.

 

No I am not taking piss. These "well 'ards" were all repeat offenders, no respect for anyone, causing distress and mayhem for their families and the communities that they lived in.

 

After the programe they were reformed characters (for the most part). If they are not a drain on society (through unemployed benefits, civil costs through crime or being a disruptive element in society) then all the better.

 

You're just against anything postivie to do with aything to do with disciple or authority.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

They were men who were committing minor crimes. Not the BANE of society. And frankly, the fact that they supposedly have little ot no respect for anyone says as much about the society or family they have been brought up on.

 

In any case, were it to be the case that such men were the bane of society and you could make a good case for using National Service on them, what about others? If you hadn't noticed, Spook was saying that National Service should be brought back because people in general have far too much freedom. He would rather they were under someone thumb, whether that be the State's or the never-appearing Sky Fairy.

 

I would say that doing the stuff in Lad's Army is a preferable to banging up people, but I imagine the catch is to create people who form a sense of respect without being provided any good reason for having it.

 

Don't be stupid, MDO. It has nothing to do with be against positive to do with authority. It's about resisting any authority when it should not exist.

[MilitantDogOwner]

They were men who were committing minor crimes. Not the BANE of society. And frankly, the fact that they supposedly have little ot no respect for anyone says as much about the society or family they have been brought up on.

 

In any case, were it to be the case that such men were the bane of society and you could make a good case for using National Service on them, what about others? If you hadn't noticed, Spook was saying that National Service should be brought back because people in general have far too much freedom. He would rather they were under someone thumb, whether that be the State's or the never-appearing Sky Fairy.

 

I would say that doing the stuff in Lad's Army is a preferable to banging up people, but I imagine the catch is to create people who form a sense of respect without being provided any good reason for having it.

 

Don't be stupid, MDO. It has nothing to do with be against positive to do with authority. It's about resisting any authority when it should not exist.

 

One man commits a minor crime...its minor.

 

Thousands and thousands of men and women committing minor crime...its a burden on society. Collectively they are the bane of society.

 

Spook is an extremist, so who really listens to him?

 

"create people who form a sense of respect without being provided any good reason for having it." And that tells me all I need to know about you. Typical rebel without a cause. Daddy in the Army who didn't approve of your life style choices?

 

"Don't be stupid, MDO. It has nothing to do with be against positive to do with authority. It's about resisting any authority when it should not exist." Any you're the one to decide that are you?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

It doesn't really matterm MDO. Yes, you would be right in that way. I could equally call that very society itself its own bane for causing its own problems in the first place.

 

"create people who form a sense of respect without being provided any good reason for having it." And that tells me all I need to know about you. Typical rebel without a cause. Daddy in the Army who didn't approve of your life style choices?

Wait a sec, you somehow thought from reading what I wrote it implied that my Father was in the Army and...what? What are you on?

 

I was talking about the fact that respect is earned and should not be freely given. Although I don't see how military discipline creates respect for others in society - there is no linkage there. It's only subservience you are getting.

 

"Don't be stupid, MDO. It has nothing to do with be against positive to do with authority. It's about resisting any authority when it should not exist." Any you're the one to decide that are you?

Not me. We all are. And it's all a matter of how much we value freedom. I don't find the state has much of a justification for its authority. But to force all young adults into an extremely regimented, extremely authoritarian, and militaristic environment where they must take the State's order is one of the worst examples of state authority.

[pauld]

bollocks it would do them no harm, any kid 18 to 25 who has no job, should be enlisted for 3 years atleast, long enough to learn a trade.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You don't honestly believe that, do you?

[pauld]

Too right, for british kids i do, why pay the fuckers dole to hang around in gangs, being total twats.

 

If they have not worked full time by their 20s they aint never going too.

Just take them out of that environment, and give them a regimented existence, wont kill-em will it, i dont mean send them into battle.

[MilitantDogOwner]

"Wait a sec, you somehow thought from reading what I wrote it implied that my Father was in the Army and...what? What are you on?" - Just trying to indentify the cause of the hate for all things military. Mummy ran off with a soldier?

 

"I was talking about the fact that respect is earned and should not be freely given. Although I don't see how military discipline creates respect for others in society - there is no linkage there. It's only subservience you are getting." - Again only your opinion. I see it differntly, you know, having been in that evironment.

 

"Not me. We all are. And it's all a matter of how much we value freedom. I don't find the state has much of a justification for its authority. But to force all young adults into an extremely regimented, extremely authoritarian, and militaristic environment where they must take the State's order is one of the worst examples of state authority." Yeah...all I'm seeing is hippy, wishy washy, bollocks from someone who has nothing to offer socirty except empty regurgitation of something he read in a "trendy" book. Real world calling, no-body cares a hoot for the nonsense makey uppy crap your spouting.

[MilitantDogOwner]

You don't honestly believe that, do you?

 

Yeah, why take them off the dole, give them a roof and a wage, give them a trade that they could use for life.

 

I mean I know its wrong to give people oppotunities in life. Better to keep them on street corners sponging off the rest of us.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

"Wait a sec, you somehow thought from reading what I wrote it implied that my Father was in the Army and...what? What are you on?" - Just trying to indentify the cause of the hate for all things military. Mummy ran off with a soldier?

Oh go on, humour me and try for a moment to put your brain into action - run off a list of things I hate about the military.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that you aren't very bright at all. Again, you just given blanket responses to any criticism of anything related to the military without seeming to understand why.

 

"I was talking about the fact that respect is earned and should not be freely given. Although I don't see how military discipline creates respect for others in society - there is no linkage there. It's only subservience you are getting." - Again only your opinion. I see it differntly, you know, having been in that evironment.

Did you do National Service? Right, you were forced to go into the military?

 

Yeah...all I'm seeing is hippy, wishy washy, bollocks from someone who has nothing to offer socirty except empty regurgitation of something he read in a "trendy" book. Real world calling, no-body cares a hoot for the nonsense makey uppy crap your spouting.

You only see that because you are stupid. Whereas the issue of freedoms is fundamental to who we are. In the real world it matters greatly, as can be seen many times. Maybe you can spend some time thinking about those examples, it shouldn't be too hard.

 

I wasn't necessarily trying to offer anything. Why, what do you have to offer society?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You don't honestly believe that, do you?

 

Yeah, why take them off the dole, give them a roof and a wage, give them a trade that they could use for life.

 

I mean I know its wrong to give people oppotunities in life. Better to keep them on street corners sponging off the rest of us.

Yes, a trade would be useful if it is something that is productive and personally useful to them in terms of their own goals in life. But this sort of talk isn't about the goals and interests of people on the dole. It's about what YOU want.

You are not too happy about them having money thrown at them, so when there is no work around it's completely fine to force unfortunate people into some sort of forced labour.

 

If there is no work then that's the fault of the society who ought to take control over the running of the economy and not allow a system that creates such unemployment.

 

The idea of some 18 year who has already had to work very hard in a boring, regimented environment to finish school and then be made to do some shitty low paid work that has nothing to do with their interests is absolutely awful.

[MilitantDogOwner]

I wasn't necessarily trying to offer anything. Why, what do you have to offer society?

 

What other than the taxes I paid through my prolonged employment, as opposed to years of benefits?

 

I have a 100% clean criminal record. I have raised alot of money for charity in my time. During the Fireman strike I was involved in the Forces cover for that. During the Foot and Mouth crisis I was involved through the Forces assistance. I was involved for a brief time in flood relief assistance in the UK and disaster relief abroad.

 

So I'm a contributing, non-parasitic, non-disruptive member of society, at home and abroad. Better that than some "well 'ard", roaming the streets, intimidating people, causing criminal damage, fathering umpteen children and absorbing benefits to spend on fags and booze.