Mutley Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 You'd hang the lot of them even though you recognise that they have what you call zero prospects in life? Sounds like a temporary clean out of the problems (people) that our society have created. What's your solution to the problems then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 In the short term? I really don't know. But killing people isn't a serious solution that demands an alternative were it to be argued against. It's just nonsense from people who are justifiably angry. Society has created this problem and it isn't going to go away soon. Maybe the previous poster is right and ways need to found to give such decent prospects in life and (as Slim says) find ways to gain self-worth. I don't know how you would find it, however. Not the way society is today. I suppose the starting point is to work out exactly why the problem exists at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 There is no excuse for the riots - it makes my blood boil and I’d hang the lot of them that are burning shops and threatening people. But, thinking about it rationally, something needs to be done to help teenagers with no absolutely zero prospects or money to break out of the downward poverty spiral and keep them from joining gangs. You'd hang the lot of them even though you recognise that they have what you call zero prospects in life? Sounds like a temporary clean out of the problems (people) that our society have created. Zero prospects? Oh the poor darlings... As you might have noticed, I'm currently living in Manila and am watching the whole thing unfold from here. Apart from Makati and the few touristy / shopping areas aimed at foreigners and the rich elite this city is mega poor. 80% of people have feck all, there's slums all over the place and it's crowded like you wouldn't believe. Those council house rebels in London and elsewhere have no idea what poor really is or what it must mean to have no prospects. The whole thing is obviously on the news here as well and everyone's just shaking their heads at it - what they get per week in benefits would be gladly and gratefully received here. It's also hard to communicate that it all apparently kicked off because police shot someone with a gun - the response here usually is: isn't that what the police is supposed to do? No prospects in your area? Top tip: Move! Loads of people from here do and I somehow think it's much harder to move from the Philippines to a different country in search of a better life than it is to move from London to another British city in order to find a job and break unhealthy ties back home. It just takes the willingness to do it. The majority of rioters were just greedy and lazy low-lifes who think they have a right to everything they want without having to work for it - if that's the future generation, then good luck Great Britain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 What's your solution to the problems then? what makes you assume that there are solutions ? Throughout the history of civilisation the mob has rioted and looted from time to time. Is it not possible that these sorts of events are not in some ways sort of socially cathartic ? People turning out to clean up their neighbourhoods is just as much what the story is about. I am not very impressed with the cheap, off the cuff, live 24 hour rolling news coverage of these events. A bit like during times of bad weather I have the impression that the TV finds it all quite exciting and almost wants it to get worse. It all ends up a bit Chris Morris. The written reports @ the Guardian and the Telegraph especially have been much more thoughtful IMO. Here are two interesting, no comment, reports from The Guardian about what has actually been taking place. The crowds involved in violence and looting are drawn from a complex mix of social and racial backgrounds London riots: 'People are fighting back. It's their neighbourhoods at stake' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 These freeloaders, who think they have a right to just take things, undermine that compact. They simply don't comprehend its value and are uninterested in things being a two way exchange - they just want to take and be given things for free. There is no such thing - other people have struggled and worked and created, often in boring repetative work, either individually, or by being a part of a huge globalized chain of people working to produce something someone else values and hence is willing to pay enough for what they recieve to make it worthwhile for all those thousands of people in that chain to do the work for them to want to buy it. The term 'commodity fetishism' just screams out to me when I read that. Although I think the matter of recognising workers is something you can hardly expect when the respect do not even exist for working class people closer to home. These people were stealing stuff off each other in the streets. What these feral people are taking is not "free stuff"; state education, health, and benefits are not free - they are paid for by the work of people who see it as a worthwhile compact between themselves and their community to support themselves, their families and those they care for.Of course, I absolutely disagree about the notion of 'worthwhile compact', but yes, these things are not free. Do you believe there culture and attitude is one that results from being on benefits; is that where you wholly lay the blame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauld Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 OK maybe execution might be a bit harsh. But certainly a good thrashing with pick-axe handles by the people whose homes and business they destroyed. When I was a lad, I wouldn't even think about saying boo to a policeman. Nowadays, as is clear from a lot of footage surfacing on the news and on the internet, that lot of teens have no issues throwing 2x4s and bottles at policeman. For something to do! Kids today have no fear or respect for the law. And needs to change. Now. If you're ever confused about how normal people can come to support violent police states, twitter (and manxforums) is now like a GCSE Bitesize guide. Your right on the money slim with that post slim, hitler a perfect example and his state machine over several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Those council house rebels in London and elsewhere have no idea what poor really is or what it must mean to have no prospects. The whole thing is obviously on the news here as well and everyone's just shaking their heads at it - what they get per week in benefits would be gladly and gratefully received here.The problem is that the circumstances are contextual. It doesn't do much good to running comparisons if the people (hypothetically) in the UK feel that their circumstances are hard or don't have the things they are told they should. Someone on minimum wage over here might have very little disposable income when working - rent is expensive, food is expensive. So they at the bottom end of THEIR society. And their society is what matters to them. Do you think that people should think more broadly, outside their society in being happy with what they have? It's also hard to communicate that it all apparently kicked off because police shot someone with a gun - the response here usually is: isn't that what the police is supposed to do?You're asking me? You know what I think of the police. No prospects in your area? Top tip: Move! Loads of people from here do and I somehow think it's much harder to move from the Philippines to a different country in search of a better life than it is to move from London to another British city in order to find a job and break unhealthy ties back home. It just takes the willingness to do it.Well I did presume the previous poster was referring to the lack of education and an understanding that such people think they don't have any good prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 The Bullingdon Club (former members include the current PM, current Chancellor and the current Mayor Of London) were notorious for riotous behaviour including smashing up pubs and restaurants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauld Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 There's going to be no way of handing out suitable punishments for those caught and convicted. Not enough room in jail, and half hearted community service. This lot are going to be laughing at the bleeding heart liberalism of our pathetic society! Corporal punishment and chain gangs on road works may make them think twice about commiting this sort of crime in future! I have to agree with you Max. Having spent all my working life as part of the justice system (now retired) I have to say that UK society (not the IOM as yet) fills me with despair. I think matters have been allowed to descend to such depths that there is now no workable solution to this problem. Having back-pedalled furiously over the past several decades, taking the soft option, and being frightened to recognize the problems, let alone talk about them as not being politically correct, western society is now reaping the evil harvest. Once the police lose control of the streets it is virtually impossible to fully regain it. And when a semblance of 'normality' returns, it's only a surface veneer and the violence is just waiting an opportunity to break out again at any excuse. Sorry to sound pessimistic but I just don't see a good long-term outcome for this. Its easy to see the results world-wide of said soft policies that have run the generation divides, look at america, where whole areas are no go zones for white people who want to stay healthy, those borders widen by night as the shitehawks hunt in packs by night. Australia has the same problem, only to a lesser extent because mainly like britain it has its gun controls in place for many decades. britains inner cities are slowly but inevitably heading in the same direction, again controlled in the extent of violence only by our gun control laws ans ease of possession. It is only tight gun controls that has kept the levels of violence to the levels they are now, otherwise gang culture would be a hundred times worse. Unlike you i think it is retrievable, only it would take measures that would seem draconian in a modern world, and so will never happen. So in essence knowing there will never be anything more than a band -aid applied to what is now the equivelent of a gaping gash in english society i agree with you, but cos your an ex copper and cant say it i will, their fooked, and they fooked themselves to boot. And heres a perfect literal interpretation, the writing has been on the wall for many years, [gang graffiti] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I see one of the first people up in court is a Primary School teacher, wonder if he will be asking the kids what they got up to this summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I doubt there will be any trouble up north tonight. They wont want to get their trackies and hoodies wet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkin Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 You'd hang the lot of them even though you recognise that they have what you call zero prospects in life? Sounds like a temporary clean out of the problems (people) that our society have created. Not literally hang them dear boy. I agree that wouldn't solve anything ;-) What's your solution to the problems then? I'm afraid I don't have a solution to the problem. Much like the troubles in Nortern Ireland, I suspect that, given options, it is something that the people involved need to choose by themselves. If they don't want to address it by themselves there is little a govening body can do. In London, the benefits and council houses don't seem to be working - (some) people want more. I think education is the key to self respect and belief that one can break the cycle. A sense of self worth goes a long way. When people think they have no prospects, ugly things happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I doubt there will be any trouble up north tonight. They wont want to get their trackies and hoodies wet! I dunno, if you get to Millets first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkin Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I'm currently living in Manila. This city is mega poor. 80% of people have feck all, there's slums all over the place and it's crowded like you wouldn't believe. Sounds like a dream. What made you go and live there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauld Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I doubt there will be any trouble up north tonight. They wont want to get their trackies and hoodies wet! I dunno, if you get to Millets first... offys first, chemists second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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