Amadeus Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Sounds like a dream. What made you go and live there? Work. Global egaming industry and all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOMRS97 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I wonder what part of "shit parents produce shit kids" is it that folks don't understand? Kind of echoes something a Manx primary school head teacher said to me many years ago (around 1971/2) - "There are no bad kids, only bad parents". I don't think she was far wrong though there will always be exceptions, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 USUAL CHINAHAND STUFF The term 'commodity fetishism' just screams out to me when I read that. Mutual exchange doesn't have to involve a commodity, or even a monetary exchange - it could be a poem, a song, or looking after a child for a day - and that could be paid for with cash, a reciprocal service or whatever. The point is one person offers to do one thing, and the other person offers to do something in return - that voluntary exchange is the basis of what I am talking about and to see it so abused makes me genuinely angry. Do you believe there culture and attitude is one that results from being on benefits; is that where you wholly lay the blame? "wholly to blame"! Of course not, such an idea is ridiculously simplistic. But I feel there is something very wrong in segments of our society to do with respecting the efforts of others and how a person's benefits (not just state hand outs, but all the services they recieve from other people efforts) are a result of mutual exchanges - these people are abusing that. The people behaving this way are frightenning diverse - as Pongo's articles are showing. It is terribly destructive, and to be blunt has to be reacted to firmly - what these people are doing is wrong. Dealing with relative poverty is very very difficult. People recieve benefits, housing, educational opportunities, social workers etc etc. They have mobile phones, TVs, material goods well beyond what people had in the 30s, 50s, 70s, 80s - take your pick of time of adversity and/or social inequality. But all of this isn't enough - the question has to be how to get these people contributing, and feeling that their contribution is appropriately recognized. 50 years ago a factory job was a good job - now its not. It seems that education - both in skills and attitudes for a productive life - has totally failed in equipping many people to achieve what they desire. The result is resentment which boils into the mass vandalism and theft we've seen. But that is no way to behave and no answer to these people's problems. And they should know that, but it seems they don't care. Communities aren't imposed by governments, they are created by the attitudes of people living in a community. And if people treat their communities this way then they will loose out. How to change that and to try to get virtuous cycles of behaviour and economic activity out of this I'm not sure. But a part of it I feel has to be based around an understanding that you have to contribute, and not just take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/7337 What are e-petitions? e-petitions is an easy way for you to influence government policy in the UK. You can create an e-petition about anything that the government is responsible for and if it gets at least 100,000 signatures, it will be eligible for debate in the House of Commons. Didn't know they existed. Be interesting if they were introduced here. Based on population you'd need only need 130-140 signatures if it was done with the same % Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 I agree they should lose their benefits, to cover the cost of the damages they've caused. I'm not in favour of them loosing them though! FFS, you'd think they'd get the spelling right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Mutual exchange doesn't have to involve a commodity, or even a monetary exchange - it could be a poem, a song, or looking after a child for a day - and that could be paid for with cash, a reciprocal service or whatever. The point is one person offers to do one thing, and the other person offers to do something in return - that voluntary exchange is the basis of what I am talking about and to see it so abused makes me genuinely angry. I do disagree with you on the matter of voluntary exchanges and you know why. I'm afraid the matter of the need for wages or cash for both parties makes it seem to me to be a matter that can't really be called voluntary. But I recognise why you are angry in seeing it as such and it doesn't matter so much because I gather you are also alluding to the structure of the community, and the relationships between its members and that of a wider society.But do these other (non-monetary) exchanges (other than commodities) exist to any great extent? Or in other words, is there a cohesive community here? I only ask because I wonder how justified or how much we can blame them in giving society the 'middle finger'. What's it done for them? Benefits handouts might be an example, but it is a process of payment that is very detached from those who give it. What I am getting it is whether you are talking about a community that has fallen apart or has become highly individualised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushtie Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Whilst cloaking everything in the Human Rights Act our hands are metaphorically tied. Why not tie the looters/rioters hands instead? Put cable ties on the scumbags, march them to a football arena - any one will do as long as it's secure - strip them of their belongings and clothes and give them those red paper suits to put on. Cable tie their hands and legs and leave them to stew in their own juice for at least 48 hrs. No food, no water, no toilet facilities, no contact with anyone. Let the bastards roll around in their own piss and shit - and after their stay they can do the walk of shame in their cute little red rompers to whichever rock they crawled out from under. Savage? I don't think so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 It will be interesting in view of the opinions above, to find out the backgrounds of the majority of those eventually prosecuted for these crimes? As mentioned earlier, one of the first to be in court will be a primary school teacher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macmannin Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Sounds like a dream. What made you go and live there? Work. Global egaming industry and all that... Ah spreading the misery that is gambling world wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 It will be interesting in view of the opinions above, to find out the backgrounds of the majority of those eventually prosecuted for these crimes? As mentioned earlier, one of the first to be in court will be a primary school teacher! Teaching assistant - a minor, but still significant, difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 It will be interesting in view of the opinions above, to find out the backgrounds of the majority of those eventually prosecuted for these crimes? As mentioned earlier, one of the first to be in court will be a primary school teacher! As I understand it they "worked" at a primary school. I would expect every walk of life, because looting is opportunistic. Although I would doubt any Eastern Mystics were involved... I like this: "Manchester riots - Jason Ullett, aged 38, was convicted of using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour and sentenced to 10 weeks. Ricky Gemmell, aged 18, was sentenced to 16 weeks in youth custody." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alias Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Whilst cloaking everything in the Human Rights Act our hands are metaphorically tied. Why not tie the looters/rioters hands instead? Put cable ties on the scumbags, march them to a football arena - any one will do as long as it's secure - strip them of their belongings and clothes and give them those red paper suits to put on. Cable tie their hands and legs and leave them to stew in their own juice for at least 48 hrs. No food, no water, no toilet facilities, no contact with anyone. Let the bastards roll around in their own piss and shit - and after their stay they can do the walk of shame in their cute little red rompers to whichever rock they crawled out from under. Savage? I don't think so! A few kids rioting isn't exactly a threat to society, its the nutjobs like you it brings out of the woodwork that scares me more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bawden Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Precisely as we reported yesterday on the back of numerous eyewitness reports, it has now emerged that police were ordered to stand down and let London burn during the first few nights of rioting, an action that quickly led to a frightened public to demand troops on the streets, rubber bullets, water cannons and curfews. On Tuesday we highlighted the “lackluster police response, with numerous reports from the public that police stood back and allowed looters to pillage both large department stores and private small businesses for hours on end.” According to eyewitnesses to the initial riots in Tottenham, police were seen “standing back and allowing rioters to cause havoc,” a trend that continued during subsequent nights before Prime Minister David Cameron ordered 10,000 extra police officers to patrol London last night. This has now been confirmed by sources within Scotland Yard who said police were ordered to “stand and observe” even as brazen acts of violent crime were committed against both people and private property, a directive which prevented them from arresting any of the troublemakers. “They had apparently been told to try and contain any violence but not to haul away offenders who would instead be identified through video footage later,” reports the Daily Mail. The decision to order police to stand down is being explained as a reaction to public outcry following the death of Ian Tomlinson, a newspaper seller who was killed by riot cops during the G20 summit in 2009. However, as we have exhaustively documented, authorities routinely allow chaos to spiral out of control, even to the extent of hiring their own provocateurs, in order to manipulate the public into demanding greater police state measures that ultimately only serve to oppress legitimate dissent against the state. The police’s inadequate response quickly led to calls for martial law, curfews and the use of water cannons on streets in England for the first time, a power that Prime Minister David Cameron has now authorized. Britain’s most widely-read newspaper The Sun ran a poll today which found that two thirds of Brits support the use of rubber bullets to deal with rioters, while 33 per cent supported the use of live bullets. “Curfews are backed by 82 per cent, using tear gas got 78 per cent support and Tasers 72 per cent,” states the report Which is why all the morons and imbeciles who are shouting for more police and state controls better be carfeul what they wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Which is why all the morons and imbeciles who are shouting for more police and state controls better be carfeul what they wish for. I'm sure your views will be welcomed by those who narrowly avoided burning to death in their own homes because a bunch of feral teenagers were bored and fancied setting fire to something. The only morons and imbeciles are the ones like you, who think that the level of policing in the UK is adequate or even heavy handed yet, as we have seen over the last few days, its not the authorities that control the streets, but packs of angry fuckwits who aspirations in life are to nick a slightly better pair of trainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Whilst cloaking everything in the Human Rights Act our hands are metaphorically tied. Why not tie the looters/rioters hands instead? Put cable ties on the scumbags, march them to a football arena - any one will do as long as it's secure - strip them of their belongings and clothes and give them those red paper suits to put on. Cable tie their hands and legs and leave them to stew in their own juice for at least 48 hrs. No food, no water, no toilet facilities, no contact with anyone. Let the bastards roll around in their own piss and shit - and after their stay they can do the walk of shame in their cute little red rompers to whichever rock they crawled out from under. Savage? I don't think so! A few kids rioting isn't exactly a threat to society, its the nutjobs like you it brings out of the woodwork that scares me more. "A few kids rioting" - Are you living in a cave? Have you watched the tv this week? The number of arrests (so far) has passed 500. Not exactly a "few kids" is it? Its people like you who scare me. Oblivious to whats going on in the world around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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