Stu Peters Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Watched the late great Bill Hicks on BBC4 this weekend - then a pal sent me a link to this story. Gibson Guitars has been raided and closed down. Now, it could be that the firm has made a 'Dirty Bomb Les Paul Signature' for Jimmy Page that threatens global peace. But what is truly upsetting about this is the apparent lack of accountability of these authoritarian regimes. Alex Jones has a Hicksian rant about it being the fault of the greenies: All a bit of a worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Mmm, I smell a rat. I guess Gibson is forced to trot out the "rock and roll heritage" defence and whip this into an 'America attacking America' story; it actually sounds quite a complex issue. Illegal Logging in Madagascar makes interesting reading. Alex Jones goes on to paint a picture of Gibson being some All-American cottage industry of honest craftsmen being cruelly stamped on by the evil Feds in order to allow 'truly evil corporations' to prosper. In fact, you could spin it the other way just as easily, allege that Gibson is the evil corporation ruthlessly buying exotic woods as cheaply as it can, from wherever it can, out of one of the poorest countries in the world and trying to get away with it on mere technicalities of law. Seems quite a bit like Apple and Foxconn, which Alex uses as an example of an evil corporation early on in his rant. Never mind, let's see what Gibson employees think of Gibson: Glassdoor Reviews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJW Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 They do make the best guitars in the world though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Mmm, I smell a rat. Indeed, the Reuter's report seems to suggest that fraudulent paperwork may have been involved. It's easy to get a bit overexcited and blame all this on environmentalists working in tandem with the fascist new world order, but step back and ignore the fact that trees are involved and what do we have? An allegation that a particular corporation has been exporting resources from a country contrary to that country's laws, and a suggestion that import/export data may have been falsified in order to facilitate this. Is it really so sinister then that the federal police have been brought in to investigate such a matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 But if fraudulent paperwork was supplied in India and their government did not pick up on it and issued an export licence, then that is India's bad call; once the licence is issued on the shipment, surely that is the end of the matter as the wood is now in the US and no longer under that juristiction. As he said, it came in through customs and was cleared at the time, and the act that they have pounced on Gibson over was brought in a couple of years ago to try and make American companies buy US grown timber instead of buying abroad. The timber types cited are not on the WWF endangered list and are classed as a sustainable resource in India, as they supply most of the rosewood globally. Sounds very much like a witchunt, much the same as the online poker bollocks. The US Treasury is clutching at straws trying to fill its coffers. Anyway, I have a Takamine and a Washburn, so I am not expecting the feds knocking my door down any time soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJW Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Anyway, I have a Takamine and a Washburn, so I am not expecting the feds knocking my door down any time soon but the Taste Police won't be far away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentbob Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 My Takamine is an old school 1970s 12 string solid top, not the cheap knock off crap they produce now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 surely that is the end of the matter as the wood is now in the US and no longer under that juristiction. It doesn't matter. The Lacey Act makes it illegal to buy and import animals and plants against the laws of another country. The timber types cited are not on the WWF endangered list and are classed as a sustainable resource in India, as they supply most of the rosewood globally. It's not really aboutt endangered lists, it's about Indian Law and specifically where the wood was finished prior to being shipped. Also, we're not just talking about rosewood, but also ebony which has been unsustainably harvested. Sounds very much like a witchunt, much the same as the online poker bollocks. The US Treasury is clutching at straws trying to fill its coffers. If that were the case, you think they'd choose a firm that wasn't quite so massively in debt as Gibson is to target. Gibson have been in trouble for a while now and it's hard to see how this qualifies as a witch hunt or what the motives for such a hunt would be; unless the Illuminati and their federal stooges are secretly led by Paul Reed Smith, or someone who (correctly) thinks that orange sunburst finishes are horribly cheesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Gibson Affidavit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floors4u Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 But if fraudulent paperwork was supplied in India and their government did not pick up on it and issued an export licence, then that is India's bad call; once the licence is issued on the shipment, surely that is the end of the matter as the wood is now in the US and no longer under that juristiction. As he said, it came in through customs and was cleared at the time, and the act that they have pounced on Gibson over was brought in a couple of years ago to try and make American companies buy US grown timber instead of buying abroad. The timber types cited are not on the WWF endangered list and are classed as a sustainable resource in India, as they supply most of the rosewood globally. Sounds very much like a witchunt, much the same as the online poker bollocks. The US Treasury is clutching at straws trying to fill its coffers. Anyway, I have a Takamine and a Washburn, so I am not expecting the feds knocking my door down any time soon As do I , the washburn is a rare one and particularly nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 If that were the case, you think they'd choose a firm that wasn't quite so massively in debt as Gibson is to target. Gibson have been in trouble for a while now and it's hard to see how this qualifies as a witch hunt or what the motives for such a hunt would be; unless the Illuminati and their federal stooges are secretly led by Paul Reed Smith, or someone who (correctly) thinks that orange sunburst finishes are horribly cheesy. Paul Reed Smith? No. Christian Martin? Quite possibly. He has been on for years about the availability of good quality wood, even trying resins instead of woods on some guitars. Do Gibson make the worlds best guitars? Well, I sold my Strat and my PRS is for sale. I will not be selling my Les Paul. However, on the acoustic front, they are not even on my radar. Their Hummingbirds and Jumbos are very nice but I find physically too big for my type of playing. Their smaller guitars are eclipsed by Martin's equivalents, which I will be sticking with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringwraith Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Alex Jones interviews Gibson CEO about the witch hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 Alex Jones is no doubt looking for sensationalist headlines - but I still find the whole thing deeply disturbing...whatever the fiscal position of Gibson or the fact that the company doesn't have 'happy' workers. Positively Orwellian, and the thin end of a huge wedge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Watched the late great Bill Hicks on BBC4 this weekend - then a pal sent me a link to this story. Gibson Guitars has been raided and closed down. Now, it could be that the firm has made a 'Dirty Bomb Les Paul Signature' for Jimmy Page that threatens global peace. But what is truly upsetting about this is the apparent lack of accountability of these authoritarian regimes. Alex Jones has a Hicksian rant about it being the fault of the greenies: All a bit of a worry. Angus Young has already been cited in a case of cruelty against trees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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