Muslims Banned From Praying In Streets

[La_Dolce_Vita]

 

I have to agree PK. We are forced to observe the customs and culture of other countries while visiting or living in them, why should others not extend the same courtesy to us?

Because you consider yourself to be something of a guest when take your short holiday. That is how you feel in another place Also you want your stay to be easy and you want to get along with the locals. And, in respect of laws, you don't want to get in trouble. It isn't so much about the people of that country forcing you. You choose to abide by those rules.

 

People who move to another country do not and should not feel like guests,

 

Unfortunately there are those who are actively trying to change our culture and customs to suit themselves and they are a growing minority.

This sounds very Daily Mail. Who is this minority changing your culture and what are they changing?

 

We should have taken a firmer stance at the beginning and let people know that they are welcome to live here and worship as they like, but we will not be willing to change our culture or laws to the detriment of our citizens!

YOU TELL 'EM.

[pauld]

Shush now little one, stamping your feet wont alter opinion, you have been told already, re-framing your arguements is just tiresome.

[Max Power]

Sorry LDV, you are being very simplistic and idealistic. Certain groups are wanting to live in this country under their own laws and appear to be unwilling to integrate. Admittedly they are an extreme bunch but seem to have a fair following.

I only wish things were as simple as you seem to think.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

No, you are confusing other issues in this simple and particular case. This is about people being told what they should and should not wear in public when there is not a good justification for the power to be able to do that.

 

This has nothing to do with people wanting to live under their own laws or about people with extreme views. It is to do with forcing people to integrate. But you don't go about it by stripping people of their basic liberties.

[MilitantDogOwner]

No, you are confusing other issues in this simple and particular case. This is about people being told what they should and should not wear in public when there is not a good justification for the power to be able to do that.

 

This has nothing to do with people wanting to live under their own laws or about people with extreme views. It is to do with forcing people to integrate. But you don't go about it by stripping people of their basic liberties.

 

You try building a church, or a gay night club in Whoknowswherethef*&Kistan and see how quickly you are forced to integrate. Or die.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

And do you think these cultures and governments in other countries are right to oppose freedom of religion and self expression and because they do limit such freedoms we should too?

[Alex]

We are already told what we have to wear, for example, women have to cover the top half of their body, men do not. We are told we all have to cover our groin areas. Men can't wear skirts to work, or even shorts usually. The burqua is such a horrible thing to see, I genuinely feel hugely offended when I see it, and there is a very good reason for banning this offensive, oppressive item of clothing. If I started forcing my sons to wear helmets or masks at all times then I would hope someone would interfere with that, and take them off me. Get it banned.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

But the fact is that many women choose to wear it. And that is the point here. Surely that choice originates from an oppressive male culture, but ultimately you are in standing in the way of an individuals choice of what to wear.

 

Work can't be compared. It's a private system.

[ballaughbiker]

I don't think choose is the right word. You are always going to find one or two who really do want to wear it of course but I'd wager that most have been 'encouraged' to wear it to avoid social and maybe physical repercussions.

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that these two have worn it to make a political point. You could assert that this is still a choice (therefore choose is a reasonable verb to use) but I doubt very much if they would exercise that choice if they didn't feel a need to make the political point.

 

Every stranger in a strange land has to try to integrate however some refuse to their and their identifiable countryman's detriment. Now that is a choice

[P.K.]

Every stranger in a strange land has to try to integrate however some refuse to their and their identifiable countryman's detriment. Now that is a choice

 

These days many councils churn out their literature in quite a few languages - why? The language of this country is English. If someone living here doesn't want to learn the language that's fine by me. But THEY should pay for translations NOT the English speaking majority.

 

Frankly what all these councils are doing is encouraging segregation but they just can't see it...

[ballaughbiker]

It goes against the grain to agree with you PK but you're right on this one! However the english living abroad are generally just as bad.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I don't think choose is the right word. You are always going to find one or two who really do want to wear it of course but I'd wager that most have been 'encouraged' to wear it to avoid social and maybe physical repercussions.

It's not one or two. It's actually something that has become very popular to wear in the UK or elsewhere, by choice, of woman who didn't wear such things in their former home. A lot of these women feel that they ought to wear the burka or niqab in a non-Muslim or western country because they feel vulnerable or because they want to assert their separate identity. That's choice.

 

A lot of women in this country feel the need to show their tits and a lot of their skin on a night out to attract the men. A lot of gay people feel a need to dress in a certain way. A lot of straight men feel a need to conform to what other straight men wear. It is all choice but there are contraints or pressures depending on culture.

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that these two have worn it to make a political point. You could assert that this is still a choice (therefore choose is a reasonable verb to use) but I doubt very much if they would exercise that choice if they didn't feel a need to make the political point.

What difference does it make in this instance whether they are making a political point or not. They are making a political stand, so it figures that they are wearing it as a political statement. It wouldn't matter if I have never worn a burqa before and decided to do so for the political point. The issue is to raise awareness of this unjust law.

 

Every stranger in a strange land has to try to integrate however some refuse to their and their identifiable countryman's detriment. Now that is a choice

There are instances where communities do not mix and problems arise. But you have to explain better when you mention a requirement for trying to integrate and a country's detriment. What detriment? In any case, it shows a lack of respect and interest in a people we want to integrate when we force them to integrate.

[ballaughbiker]

I personally don't care what people wear really but I have a bit of a problem when they 'decide' wear an oppressive garment like the burqa because they feel they have to. The community that makes them feel they have to is a repressive force. There should be no such repression in the 21C. Your other examples are not forms of repression. That's the difference.

 

Your point of suddenly finding a reason to wear a burqua (when someone never had the desire to before)to make a political point neatly illustrates the sometimes deceitful reason for that persons actions. It may be just to have a go at the officialdom they despise for a host of other reasons rather than the one they are currently protesting about. I believe that to be the case here.

 

A community that make no effort to integrate will (not unreasonably) engender ill feeling to that community from the locals. Someone who could be indentified by the way they dress/speak etc as possibly one of them and who had every intention of completely integrating would be then treated unfairly by the locals ie to their detriment. That person who has every intention of integrating will be the one that suffers a lack of respect as you put it.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Yeah, you're right, there should be no repression. But you think the basic civil liberties should be removed by the government to stop them? What right does the government have to strip such rights away? That's the most important issue here.

 

But women often wear it because they dislike a particular aspect of UK culture where many women dress for the benefit of men. Where they feel they are at risk of rape and probably to retain their identity in a western country. Now nothing about that is repressive, although rape claims are silly. Of course, it is a symbol of repression and is often forced on woman. But many choose to wear it. And they should be afforded that freedom. It should be taken for granted and not taken from them.

 

As for the issue of deceit in your second paragraph, why do you think it matters were to be not really wear it? It makes no different to the matter of exposing an unjust law.

[The Dalby Spook]

I have one that i like to wear round the house on sundays.