P.K. Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 It goes against the grain to agree with you PK but you're right on this one! Hmmm.... Perhaps you should go and lie down in a darkened room until you feel all bitter better again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 @LDV OK so what we'll do is give the handful of radical nutters the right to do what ever they want at the detriment of (at least) the tens of thousands of seriously repressed women? Liberty and freedom can only be allowed to go so far or you risk the lunatics taking over the asylum. Whilst I have nothing against muslims per se, the radical tiny minority would be bound to exploit (to everyone's detriment) the totally free choice that you would like to see. Or is it that you too just want to have another pop at officialdom no matter where it is? As to the second para I think it does matter if (say) your beef is really about Israel and you use the burqa ban purely as an excuse to get to protest about that ie something different. You keep saying 'unjust law' as though that is not at all debatable . Its unjustness is very debatable for the reasons given above. @PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Radical nutters? What makes these people radical and nutters? You really have to let go off this ignorant belief you have that there is just a handful of women who want to wear the burqa. I think the most important issue is whether you think that there are lots of women who choose to wear this clothing. Liberty and freedom can only be allowed to go so far or you risk the lunatics taking over the asylum. Taking over what? I don't think you are explaining yourself well enough. the radical tiny minority would be bound to exploit (to everyone's detriment) the totally free choice that you would like to see. Lost me there. I don't know what you are talking about at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheels Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 It's called Freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Freedom by removing freedom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauld Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Yes our freedom to exercise our human right to freedom from #minority freedoms#. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Lost me there. I don't know what you are talking about at all. Quite what's the point in continuing. However..... As I understand it from recently talking to two totally unconnected muslim women, there is bound to be a very small minority of muslim women actually want to wear the burqa and would do so even if their community did not pressure them to do so. These are the same group who have fanatical and extreme views of their religion. The vast majority of women you see wearing the burqa only do so to stop repercussions from their community. Let's put it another way, they wear it for a quiet life. You have to let go of the belief that all these women wear it as free choice. They don't. Second para. Its a general point and therefore requires no further clarification. I'll wager most other readers know what I'm on about. Final para where you're lost. Radical and forceful minorities generally take over in the total absence of any balancing forces. History is littered with examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 As I understand it from recently talking to two totally unconnected muslim womenAre you sure they are not the same ones?These are the same group who have fanatical and extreme views of their religion.Not at all. They are simply Muslims. They are not fanatics or extreme in any way and the reasons given for wearing them do not often rest on Islam.Second para. Its a general point and therefore requires no further clarification. I'll wager most other readers know what I'm on about. You can wager what you wish, but you do need to explain your statements carefully rather than using buzz phrases that get bandied around a lot but don't in themselves shed much light on the matter.Final para where you're lost. Radical and forceful minorities generally take over in the total absence of any balancing forces. History is littered with examples.Interesting theory. Can you give examples of radical minorities and the operation of a balancing force. More importantly, can you explain the 'mechanism' of this force? Sounds like a novel theory that you could simplify greatly but just saying that you think there is some threat from some people and the state can put a stop to it. Really, we can sidestep all of this and I can ask just how you can think it is justified in having a state tell others what to wear. What gives it the 'right' or 'legitimacy'. You see, I think your view smacks of the lazy thinking that is so common. You recognise that the State does interfere in instances like this, so you don't give much thoughts to allowing its power to be used elsewhere where you see wrongs in society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Urrrrggghhhhh..... Just waiting for the assertion that I don't(implication have the capacity to) understand xyz or suffer from lazy thinking. Well we finally got there. This is a "lazy thinking" criticism. When we get to this stage, it just isn't worth continuing. No wonder so many posters just won't reply to you at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Stop being soft. You are just as bad yourself at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radfahrer Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 PK Why cant European countries and Britain just do what the yanks do, and make them have to adopt that countries customs, language, and general dress code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radfahrer Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Australia says NO - Second Time she has done this ! AMAZING You must read it !!!! She's done it again.. She sure isn't backing down on her hard line stance and one has to appreciate her belief in the rights of her native countrymen.. A breath of fresh air to see someone lead. I wish some leaders would step up in UK & USA .. Australian Prime Minister does it again!! This woman should be appointed Queen of the World.. Truer words have never been spoken. It took a lot of courage for this woman to speak what she had to say for the world to hear. The retribution could be phenomenal, but at least she was willing to take a stand on her and Australia 's beliefs. The whole world needs a leader like this! Prime Minister Julia Gillard - Australia Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.. Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. ' 'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom' 'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!' 'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.' 'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.' 'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.' 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.' Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves in USA, UK, WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths. If you agree please SEND THIS ON and ON, to as many people as you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 PK Why cant European countries and Britain just do what the yanks do, and make them have to adopt that countries customs, language, and general dress code. You mean make them pass a nationalisation exam? Pass and you're an American citizen sort of affair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 I think I understand Ballaughbikers comments about inmates and asylums reading the stuff Radfahrer puts up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauld Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I think I understand Ballaughbikers comments about inmates and asylums reading the stuff Radfahrer puts up. I love Gillards aussie fierceness though. Especially this part, if only we had politicians with her balls. 'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.' 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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