Chief Minister: Allan Bell V Peter Karran

[NikoB]

It's now in the Listen Again section of manxradio.com for your listening pleasure.

 

Thanks for that. Hope it's a sign of things to come at MR.

 

Can anyone suggest another way of listening to this? Keeps stalling when trying to stream, and downloading is painfully slow...

 

Cheers,

[Slim]

 

Can anyone suggest another way of listening to this? Keeps stalling when trying to stream, and downloading is painfully slow...

 

Cheers,

 

Stick with the download and be more patient

[NikoB]

 

Can anyone suggest another way of listening to this? Keeps stalling when trying to stream, and downloading is painfully slow...

 

Cheers,

 

Stick with the download and be more patient

 

 

Ugh,

 

Over an hour to download a 55mb file? Is that a problem my end of the connection, or is the Manx Radio site piss poor?

[John Wright]

I think that a number of you have missed the point. This was a publicity stunt by LVP. Bell was a done deal. It has given publicity and the opportunity to set out their stall and attack Bell.

 

Generally the standard of speaking in Tynwald is not good, KB was doing her maiden speech, doesn't matter who wrote or advised, or how well she read it. She got over her point. It was stage managed theatrics. It had some purpose, its stopped AB being crowned without any fight at all.

 

It has set the scene for the next 5 years, drawn attention to the fact there are now 3 in opposition. It showed that there is the possibility of another way. It was not a lowering of standards due to party politics, but a demonstration that party politics is now here and that there will be attempts, outside the new select committees to hold the executive to account

 

Of course no one else was going to vote for PK, they all know which side their bread is buttered, they will have been promised departments, boards etc and even possibly, the chairing of select committees

 

yes it was rough and scrappy, nothing new there then, but it was actually quite refreshing

[Cronky]

I agree with John Wright. It was thoroughly refreshing. Kate Beecroft has a lot of gumption and, in politics, that's no bad thing.

 

From the Hansard:

http://www.tynwald.o...d/ept111011.pdf

 

Kate Beecroft stated:

 

• It is very easy to appear to be a successful Treasury Minister, when you have many more millions pouring into the Government coffers every year under the previously more favourable VAT regime.
  
• let us look at the areas that went wrong under his watch as a Minister
  
• the very basic failure of management in his own Department, which led to the £2.2 million additional cost of euros for the Ronaldsway airport runway extension.
  
• his failure to control MEA capital expenditure;
  
• the costly debacle of the scheme of arrangement for the collapsed bank, KSF(IOM), which caused unnecessary delay and distress for depositors and damaged international reputation;
  
• the film industry, by the passing of public funds into CinemaNX, a private company which is not open to public scrutiny and is haemorrhaging taxpayers’ funds due to questionable investments.
  
• his staggering lack of judgement in his involvement in the planning process for the Mount Murray development.
   
   
   
  

Is all this correct?

[Slim]

I think that a number of you have missed the point. This was a publicity stunt by LVP. Bell was a done deal. It has given publicity and the opportunity to set out their stall and attack Bell.

 

That's great in principle but in execution it was feeble. By all means attack the establishment but an ex pilot banging on about manx2 is only going to make you look like you don't have any actual important issues to champion. Beecrofts speech was very clearly just a script, she should have stood up for it when heckled but she folded and needed to be rescued by a huffy Karran. Nice try, but more damaging than effective for the LV's.

[carbon selector]

I absolutely agree with John Wright, above ^^

 

Over an hour to download a 55mb file? Is that a problem my end of the connection, or is the Manx Radio site piss poor?

 

Manx Radio doesn't do streaming of the Listen Again anymore. Yes, it is now painfully slow and so is piss poor by comparison.

 

Can a techie explain why you have to now download the whole MP3 file before listening, whereas previously it was a streaming wma file.

 

Please, please, don't someone from Manx Radio tell me it is to save some bandwidth.

[Kopek]

Still looks like negative campaigning gone wrong to me. Agree with JW, no hope so why not make the most of the situation?

 

Looks like LV will stay outside the Govt though and that KB will be a puppet for PK, although ZH did show some attempt to stand up to the hecklers, he did know when to pack in the attack and go to the praise part of his speech. He may be more independant of PK? Or of LV?

 

It is too late for PK to change his antagonising style now. But the newbies?

 

The majority in ther Keys for an open vote would indicate that it was known beforehand that there was no one else waiting in the wings for a second round of voting, so it was safe for their future roles in the Govt, to go for the open vote.

[carbon selector]

To be fair, Kate Beecroft was making some very good points. It's just that perhaps today she wasn't too good at making those points. It certainly takes courage to be in that particular environment at that particular time, to make those points.

 

Source - Hansard Early Publication

 

Mrs Beecroft:

.

.

Firstly, the paperwork submitted with their applications: the Hon. Member for Onchan, Mr Karran, had

already published his programme for Government prior to the General Elections, so he only needed to add a

covering letter and his written application was complete. His manifesto for the General Election was sent to

all voters and it focused almost entirely on national issues and was very specific. The Hon. Member for

Ramsey, Mr Bell, has produced his written statement of intentions, which now includes his national policies

in his letter of application. Superficially, both their applications appear to be very different. However, on

closer inspection, apart from the all-important lack of detail in Mr Bell’s, there are remarkable similarities.

Just a few of these are:

• Mr Karran’s manifesto says, ‘Create business parks in the north, west and the south’, because we already have business parks in the east. Mr Bell says, ‘ensure the whole country becomes an enterprise zone’.
  
• Mr Karran says, ‘freedom of information’; Mr Bell, ‘freedom of information’.
  
• Mr Karran says, ‘Introduce measures to address the financial problems of an ageing population’; Mr Bell’s, ‘A major problem facing most developed countries is an ageing population.’
  
• Mr Karran says, ‘Create culture change’; Mr Bell’s, ‘a change to the culture of Government’.
  
• Mr Karran says, ‘diversification and innovation’; Mr Bell’s, ‘diversifying into new sectors’.
  
• Mr Karran has been holding public meetings three times a month for the last five years. Mr Bell’s manisfesto states that he is now going to start holding public meetings.
  

Madam President, I am sure the electorate must be wondering, as I am, why Mr Bell has dressed himself up in Liberal Vannin colours. Has he been reading our newsletters and manifesto and been converted to good common sense, or is it something else? Many people say that Government is like a bus, some Members want to take it in one direction and some another, but previous administrations have proved that some just do not care where it goes as long as they are on it. Hon. Members will decide for themselves which category Mr Bell falls into.

There is a saying that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, and we are so flattered that we are tempted to send Mr Bell a iberal Vannin membership application form. (Interjections) On second thoughts, maybe not. The Liberal Vannin party does not need or ndorse political spin, and Mr Bell clearly does.

(Laughter)

In his manifesto for Chief Minister, he states:

‘If the outgoing Government can be criticised for one thing it is that we have been very poor at keeping the public fully informed as

to progress in many areas.’

I find this quite incredible. Four hundred and fifteen thousand pounds was spent in total in the last year by

Government on PR, including £346,000 -

 

 

 

............I'm sure we will be hearing a lot more from Liberal Vannin.

[Slim]

Can a techie explain why you have to now download the whole MP3 file before listening, whereas previously it was a streaming wma file.

 

Please, please, don't someone from Manx Radio tell me it is to save some bandwidth.

 

Just the way your browsers dealing with the file. Streamed fine for me in Chrome.

[Lost Login]

I think that a number of you have missed the point. This was a publicity stunt by LVP. Bell was a done deal. It has given publiciting like a bunch of pillocksy and the opportunity to set out their stall and attack Bell.

 

Thats fine if you believe there is no such thing as bad publicity. I am not necessarily of the opinion that it is sensible to publicise the fact that you are acting like a bunch of pillocks

[Shake me up Judy]

Sorry John but I find your interpretation bizarre. If this was a publicity stunt what have they achieved ? It couldn't have been handled worse. As for 'refreshing' I can only say that you have an odd notion of refreshment. This political travesty demeaned the highest court in the land and made a mockery of our democratic process. There was an opportunity today for someone to stand up in Tynwald and ring out the name of Peter Karran as a true Manxman of character, integrity, and experience, in a rousing speech for a man of the people. He would still have lost, but he would have gone down with dignity, with his colours intact and proudly aloft, as he shook the hand of Allan Bell. Instead he was shot down in tatters from his own side in the biggest act of political suicide and tactical stupidity that I've ever witnessed.

[Slim]

Sorry John but I find your interpretation bizarre. If this was a publicity stunt what have they achieved ? It couldn't have been handled worse. As for 'refreshing' I can only say that you have an odd notion of refreshment. This political travesty demeaned the highest court in the land and made a mockery of our democratic process. There was an opportunity today for someone to stand up in Tynwald and ring out the name of Peter Karran as a true Manxman of character, integrity, and experience, in a rousing speech for a man of the people. He would still have lost, but he would have gone down with dignity, with his colours intact and proudly aloft, as he shook the hand of Allan Bell. Instead he was shot down in tatters from his own side in the biggest act of political suicide and tactical stupidity that I've ever witnessed.

 

Spot on.

[pongo]

The Hansard transcript is funny.

[carbon selector]

Sorry to gooff topic:

Can a techie explain why you have to now download the whole MP3 file before listening, whereas previously it was a streaming wma file.

 

Please, please, don't someone from Manx Radio tell me it is to save some bandwidth.

 

Just the way your browsers dealing with the file. Streamed fine for me in Chrome.

Cheers Slim, all fine with Chrome.