Greece

[Lxxx]

I'm sure the EU will find a way of making the outcome suit it's agenda and I'm not overly convinced this Greek government are actually on the side of the people, despite all the bluster to the contrary.

 

Varoufakis, the man making the financial decisions, appears not to be the people's crusader, the patriotic Greek warrior, he claims to be.

The guy studied economics in London, taught at Cambridge, spent the next 11 years in Australia where he took up Australian citizenship and then before taking up the position of Greece Finance Minister he was working in the U.S. and lecturing at the University of Texas, an establishment with close ties to the Washington thinktanks.

 

Of course that means nothing in and of itself but for a man who has spent a large part of the last 30 years out of the country and taking up citizenship elsewhere it's not the man of the people profile you'd expect. Despite his riding of a motorbike to work and wearing a leather jacket to finance meetings to make himself out to be different.

 

Most politicians can be bought, why should we believe this latest rabble are any different?

[manxy]

Better start hoarding tinned food, bottled water & planting veg. Time to hit the shelves before they run out.

Link from the Guardian

[Amadeus]

Funny, that. Went shopping earlier and it was total pandemonium....not. Shelves still full and no visible panic buying. Seen more panic in the Douglas Tesco when the boat was late.

[Lagman]

Funny, that. Went shopping earlier and it was total pandemonium....not. Shelves still full and no visible panic buying. Seen more panic in the Douglas Tesco when the boat was late.

We have years of experience/paranoia and far less shops, wait a few days.

[oldmanxfella]

Funny, that. Went shopping earlier and it was total pandemonium....not. Shelves still full and no visible panic buying. Seen more panic in the Douglas Tesco when the boat was late.

That's because they know the EU will sent more food if they run out.

[Albert Tatlock]

Hard to stock up if you can only access €60 euros a day max.

 

The panic will start if and when a 'no' vote result is announced.

[Lxxx]

With something this close to call and with the stakes so high civil unrest is virtually nailed on shortly. The older generation will sell out the youth for the sake of their pensions, same as Scotland. Socialism at it's best.

[woolley]

 

 

Why is it that only the Irish seem to have been made to pay for their boomtime largesse when the rest of the European piss takers are constantly being let off the hook -

Cypriots had their bank accounts raped so I think they have had the biggest whipping thus far. Same might have happened to Ireland had the UK not stepped in with a huge separate bail out.

[woolley]

Varoufakis, the man making the financial decisions, appears not to be the people's crusader, the patriotic Greek warrior, he claims to be.

The guy studied economics in London, taught at Cambridge, spent the next 11 years in Australia where he took up Australian citizenship and then before taking up the position of Greece Finance Minister he was working in the U.S. and lecturing at the University of Texas, an establishment with close ties to the Washington thinktanks.

 

Of course that means nothing in and of itself but for a man who has spent a large part of the last 30 years out of the country and taking up citizenship elsewhere it's not the man of the people profile you'd expect. Despite his riding of a motorbike to work and wearing a leather jacket to finance meetings to make himself out to be different.

 

Interesting. It would be telling to know how much of his wealth he keeps in Greece.

[guzzi]

The best solution, practically and from a humanitarian point of view, would be for the IMF and European bailouts to be extended on more favourable terms. Terms that impose strict austerity are recessionary, and will merely perpetuate the useless cycling of money between creditors, Greece and back to the creditors. This may never allow the Greek economy to return to growth. Further and deeper busts will do nothing to hdelp thge creditors, either.

 

Yes, it is clear that Greece should never have been allowed to join the euro, and yes Greek Government borrowing from banks was irresponsible and poor governance, but we are where we are and the least bad option ought to be pursued.

 

I think it is as well to remember that it was northern European banks as well as others who loaned money to Greece during the post-euro honeymoon, and that protecting those banks was a major part of the agenda for the EU bailout.

 

Tsipras overstates the case when he describes the actions of the creditors as 'terrorism'. I do believe that the creditors have a strong political agenda, which is to make sure that Syriza aren't seen to succeed on any level. They need the voters of Spain to see Greece's pain, before the Spanish General Election, where Podemos stand to take power from the traditional parties of the left and centre right.

 

Comparisons with Ireland are meaningful, and more generous terms for Greece will surely be painful for Ireland. But, the depth of Greece's plight now requires that.

[woody2]

 

They've been taking the piss for decades and the state has bankrupted itself selling some weird socialist miracle economic system to its people - a huge proportion of whom were taking the piss by paying hardly any taxes whilst at the same time thousands and thousands of others have been on generous government salaries and pension benefits for largely doing very little.

 

 

 

same as the rock

[notwell]

 

 

Having stolen from the EU, the ECB, and the IMF I read this morning that there is a plan to steal from Greek bank depositors in order to fund the thieving lying Greek government.

 

 

Greece is a beautiful country, one of the cradles of civilisation and democracy, and its people surely deserve a way out that protects their well being, including their material well being. How would you handle this disastrous situation?

I would agree with that in principle but there's an element of moral hazard in here that the Greeks need to learn from. They've been taking the piss for decades and the state has bankrupted itself selling some weird socialist miracle economic system to its people - a huge proportion of whom were taking the piss by paying hardly any taxes whilst at the same time thousands and thousands of others have been on generous government salaries and pension benefits for largely doing very little.

 

Why is it that only the Irish seem to have been made to pay for their boomtime largesse when the rest of the European piss takers are constantly being let off the hook - free to keep on racking up more debt and pursuing lifestyles and economic policies that are simply bonkers? The only thing the Greeks wanted out of its EU membership was the EU money - now it's all spent and yet they still expect to be able to keep on operationing as normal despite the fact there is no money or economy to support it?

Couldn't agree more. The sooner they Fuck off the better.

 

Although it'll be Italy next. They are in a mess and taking a huge haircut on what Greece owes them won't help.

[P.K.]

Sure strict terms are recessionary but they are also neccesary.

 

In the 10 years before the 2008 financial crash Greek Public Sector workers saw their wages double. However there was no accompanying substantial rise in the economy. Just much cheaper borrowing from 2001 thanks to joining the EU.

 

Anyway that bubble has well and truly burst.

 

I hope they leave the EU because they are essentially devaluing the Euro hence the bailouts. The new Drachma will accurately represent what their economy is really worth and will devalue the totally stupid level of PS salaries and pensions. All of which needs doing.

[The Sick Moon]

I hope they leave the EU because they are essentially devaluing the Euro hence the bailouts. The new Drachma will accurately represent what their economy is really worth and will devalue the totally stupid level of PS salaries and pensions. All of which needs doing.

 

Yes, and devaluation will also make them competitive, assuming they can continue trading within the EU, and allow themselves to work their way out of their mess in the long term.

[Chinahand]

Polls have closed ... The decision has been made; we just have to wait to find out what it is!