Amadeus Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The whole Greece mess is 100% self created and self inflicted by the Greeks. Bit simplistic view, ey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The whole Greece mess is 100% self created and self inflicted by the Greeks. Do you have more than the one brain cell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The whole Greece mess is 100% self created and self inflicted by the Greeks. Bit simplistic view, ey? Not really. Just 'cutting to the chase'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The whole Greece mess is 100% self created and self inflicted by the Greeks. Bit simplistic view, ey? Not really. Just 'cutting to the chase'. Whilst being way off the fuckin mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The whole Greece mess is 100% self created and self inflicted by the Greeks. Do you have more than the one brain cell? Lxxx, I think you'll find the non-commie world agrees with spook. Over the last six years the Greeks have done sod-all to fix their problems - well not quite sod-all, they've borrowed even more money, and that's all they've done. Read the informed press and educate yourself. Today Greece, tomorrow the rock (unlikely)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Spook, putting things in your sort of language - if some prat from RBS turned up at the local "Traveler" site and left a few hours later with a whole load of signed mortgage agreements, do you really think it would be 100% self created and self inflicted by the Travelers when the bank actually hands over the cash and in 5 years time discovers all the mortgage money has been frittered away. Lending money to people is a two way process. In my example the prat from RBS has responsibilities. So too have the EU bureaucrats who pitched up with EU cash, and the finance people who happily bought Greek debt at unsustainable levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Spook, putting things in your sort of language - if some prat from RBS turned up at the local "Traveler" site and left a few hours later with a whole load of signed mortgage agreements, do you really think it would be 100% self created and self inflicted by the Travelers when the bank actually hands over the cash and in 5 years time discovers all the mortgage money has been frittered away. Lending money to people is a two way process. In my example the prat from RBS has responsibilities. So too have the EU bureaucrats who pitched up with EU cash, and the finance people who happily bought Greek debt at unsustainable levels. However you don't expect a 'modern' government such as Greece to lie in such a blatant way as they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The whole Greece mess is 100% self created and self inflicted by the Greeks. Maybe by the Greek politicians, assisted by the EU etc. I feel sorry for the 'man in the street' Greek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Trust but verify. It is a pretty good motto in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 The whole Greece mess is 100% self created and self inflicted by the Greeks. Do you have more than the one brain cell? Lxxx, I think you'll find the non-commie world agrees with spook. Over the last six years the Greeks have done sod-all to fix their problems - well not quite sod-all, they've borrowed even more money, and that's all they've done. Read the informed press and educate yourself. Today Greece, tomorrow the rock (unlikely)? I do read the informed press and I'm not a commie. Far from it if you read a lot of my posts. Spook talks about the Greek people as if they themselves have taken these decisions. They haven't. Their representatives, career politicians on the take, have sold them down the river along with the banks, EU politicians and their very own Greek oligarchs. Most of the leaders have been US educated, hand-picked for the role, to deliver Greece on a plate. It's worked. Papandreou was a roommate of his political 'rival' Antonis Samaras at college in Massachusetts. He was replaced by Papademos, who was also at Massachusetts funnily enough, at the Institute of Technology. These boys were groomed and played the game the EU wanted playing and have now left a country in ruins because of it. The average man on the street didn't ask to have to rummage through bins for food. He was fine living a simple life until the politicians decided to sell the country out and accept loans they neither needed, wanted nor could afford. They didn't ask Goldman Sachs to fudge the figures so they could be invited into the big EU club. They didn't ask for their debt in drachma to be converted to euros and watch as the euro doubled against the dollar, meaning all their debts were doubled to a massively unpayable level. They are a perfect example of socialism on steroids, which is why I am not a fan of socialism. But to say that the people who are hungry and penniless deserve it is way, way off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Spook, putting things in your sort of language - if some prat from RBS turned up at the local "Traveler" site and left a few hours later with a whole load of signed mortgage agreements, do you really think it would be 100% self created and self inflicted by the Travelers when the bank actually hands over the cash and in 5 years time discovers all the mortgage money has been frittered away. Lending money to people is a two way process. In my example the prat from RBS has responsibilities. So too have the EU bureaucrats who pitched up with EU cash, and the finance people who happily bought Greek debt at unsustainable levels. When the gypsies had promised to change their ways in order to meet the obligations, even setting out plans they has established on how they would, and then didn't the fault would be with the gypsies. But we're not dealing with a bunch of gypsies or itinerant Irish tinkers, we're dealing with a Western nation with a Western based government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 However you don't expect a 'modern' government such as Greece to lie in such a blatant way as they did. What a bizarre notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Spook, putting things in your sort of language - if some prat from RBS turned up at the local "Traveler" site and left a few hours later with a whole load of signed mortgage agreements, do you really think it would be 100% self created and self inflicted by the Travelers when the bank actually hands over the cash and in 5 years time discovers all the mortgage money has been frittered away. Lending money to people is a two way process. In my example the prat from RBS has responsibilities. So too have the EU bureaucrats who pitched up with EU cash, and the finance people who happily bought Greek debt at unsustainable levels. I'm sorry but the government of Greece (collectively) and the Greek people have brought a lot on themselves. Let's not forget that the beginning of the end was the deal the Government did with Goldman Sachs to try to hid the mess it was in. http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman-sachs-helped-greece-to-mask-its-true-debt-a-676634.html So don't simplify the debate as this isn't really about the EU pushing credit on peasants. The Greek government and the Greek people knew what they were doing - they only came to the EU in the first place for the money. They also had no intention of culturally changing Greece's economy. So even after the EU entry over 25% of the work force still worked for the Government - they recruited more, they paid them more, they didn't change the fantastic pensions, and they didn't liberalise their economy to provide opportunities for people to leave and work in the private sector. They also didn't stop Greece's culture of tax evasion and out and out crookedness when it came to entrepreneurs and other professionals who were making good money. None of them paid anywhere what they needed to pay in taxes. So nobody paid tax at the top, and everybody got overpaid by the State at the bottom. So all the Greek Government has done is what IOMG has done with UKG. It just used other people's money to keep afloat a system that simply was not viable on its own, and introduced no cultural change to at least give that system a chance to adapt to preserve itself in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I don't know how anyone can have any sympathy for Greece (either Govt or people). They've had ample opportunity to rectify things but won't take the tough decisions. Ireland did it. Greece won't. Can wait for them to fuck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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