spook Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I really and sincerely hope that they renege on repaying their debt and get kicked out of the Euro zone and the EU. The government lied through their teeth to gain accession, the public jumped on every opportunity to con at every step, they extorted cash from the power house state, and thought they could continue to get away with it as did the Manx government with the VAT swindle. Greece is a peasant nation. It has used other people's money to work to the lazy peasant hand to mouth come day go day while living to a standard that their efforts do not justify. It's now quite literally pay back time and the pay back needed an end to Spanish Practices and working properly like the people in the EU power house states but they have not as well as pay back and servicing of the loans from the ECB. So now they should be MADE to reduce their living standard to the level that they can afford. Hardship? Yes. But it'll be the pain of reverting to the peasant lifestyle that they can afford based on the work that they are prepared to undertake. And the sooner the better. Otherwise the whole country is not just a country of liars and cheats, it'll be a country of thieves too and that they must not be allowed to get away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I really and sincerely hope that they renege on repaying their debt and get kicked out of the Euro zone and the EU. The government lied through their teeth to gain accession, the public jumped on every opportunity to con at every step, they extorted cash from the power house state, and thought they could continue to get away with it as did the Manx government with the VAT swindle. Greece is a peasant nation. It has used other people's money to work to the lazy peasant hand to mouth come day go day while living to a standard that their efforts do not justify. It's now quite literally pay back time and the pay back needed an end to Spanish Practices and working properly like the people in the EU power house states but they have not as well as pay back and servicing of the loans from the ECB. So now they should be MADE to reduce their living standard to the level that they can afford. Hardship? Yes. But it'll be the pain of reverting to the peasant lifestyle that they can afford based on the work that they are prepared to undertake. And the sooner the better. Otherwise the whole country is not just a country of liars and cheats, it'll be a country of thieves too and that they must not be allowed to get away with. What a disturbingly angry, sour, self-satisfied, self-righteous and self-aggrandising person you seem to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 It is only due to the enormous conceit of the Euro hierarchy that the situation has gone on for so long. The only way Greece can pay its debts to the rest of Europe and the IMF is if the rest of Europe and the IMF give it the money to do so. It has been that way for years and there is no end in sight. Give them 5 billion now and they will need 15 billion in six months. So the question is, what is the point of the charade? Who is it serving to prolong the agony that is Greece in the flawed Euro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It is only due to the enormous conceit of the Euro hierarchy that the situation has gone on for so long. The only way Greece can pay its debts to the rest of Europe and the IMF is if the rest of Europe and the IMF give it the money to do so. It has been that way for years and there is no end in sight. Give them 5 billion now and they will need 15 billion in six months. So the question is, what is the point of the charade? Who is it serving to prolong the agony that is Greece in the flawed Euro? Spot on. All the money that Greece is being given is just being used to bailout the same creditors who are funding the handouts. None of it is going to the Greek people. Madness. Unfortunately the other option is to let Greece walk, lick it's wounds and then probably recover quite successfully and show the EU up for being the self serving empire-building bureaucracy that it is. On top of that a lot of self important people in Brussels will be in danger of losing their perks for life when the rest of Europe starts to revolt too. This is all about maintaining the illusion of power than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It is only due to the enormous conceit of the Euro hierarchy that the situation has gone on for so long. The only way Greece can pay its debts to the rest of Europe and the IMF is if the rest of Europe and the IMF give it the money to do so. It has been that way for years and there is no end in sight. Give them 5 billion now and they will need 15 billion in six months. So the question is, what is the point of the charade? Who is it serving to prolong the agony that is Greece in the flawed Euro? Spot on. All the money that Greece is being given is just being used to bailout the same creditors who are funding the handouts. None of it is going to the Greek people. Madness. Unfortunately the other option is to let Greece walk, lick it's wounds and then probably recover quite successfully and show the EU up for being the self serving empire-building bureaucracy that it is. On top of that a lot of self important people in Brussels will be in danger of losing their perks for life when the rest of Europe starts to revolt too. This is all about maintaining the illusion of power than anything else. Do you really see the Greek attempt to steal from the ECB in that way? What about the huge tax evasion that takes place in Greece? Or the laziness combined with the demand for a standard of living that the hard workers of Northern Europe work to achieve? Or the pensions that are handed out? Where do you think that the money comes from to meet the bills those things create comes from? Greece went cap in hands and promises on lips to change their hedonistic lifestyle and address the tax evasion, no not evasion, blatant fiddling and on the basis of those promises were loaned billions to tide the economy over while the necessary changes were put in place, changes that meant accepting austerity as part of the get well program, but having got the gelt - immediately did nothing. The money they were loaned was used to perpetuate the profligate living rather than as a cushion during the get well process which was the deal on which the loan had been made. I have not one iota of pity for the Greek people, especially after they elected the party in office on an anti-austerity ticket. When I wrote of Greece having a peasant society I was not being insulting, I was stating a fact. They used the money and credit available to them to live a rich man's lifestyle on a peasants work ethic. Now it's payback time in more ways than one and to attempt to blackmail the Euro zone, the ECB, and even the whole of the rest of the EU nation states is nothing short of criminal. Give them nothing, let the whole nation pay the price for what they have done and continue to try to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It is only due to the enormous conceit of the Euro hierarchy that the situation has gone on for so long. The only way Greece can pay its debts to the rest of Europe and the IMF is if the rest of Europe and the IMF give it the money to do so. It has been that way for years and there is no end in sight. Give them 5 billion now and they will need 15 billion in six months. So the question is, what is the point of the charade? Who is it serving to prolong the agony that is Greece in the flawed Euro? Spot on. All the money that Greece is being given is just being used to bailout the same creditors who are funding the handouts. None of it is going to the Greek people. Madness. Unfortunately the other option is to let Greece walk, lick it's wounds and then probably recover quite successfully and show the EU up for being the self serving empire-building bureaucracy that it is. On top of that a lot of self important people in Brussels will be in danger of losing their perks for life when the rest of Europe starts to revolt too. This is all about maintaining the illusion of power than anything else. Do you really see the Greek attempt to steal from the ECB in that way? What about the huge tax evasion that takes place in Greece? Or the laziness combined with the demand for a standard of living that the hard workers of Northern Europe work to achieve? Or the pensions that are handed out? Where do you think that the money comes from to meet the bills those things create comes from? Greece went cap in hands and promises on lips to change their hedonistic lifestyle and address the tax evasion, no not evasion, blatant fiddling and on the basis of those promises were loaned billions to tide the economy over while the necessary changes were put in place, changes that meant accepting austerity as part of the get well program, but having got the gelt - immediately did nothing. The money they were loaned was used to perpetuate the profligate living rather than as a cushion during the get well process which was the deal on which the loan had been made. I have not one iota of pity for the Greek people, especially after they elected the party in office on an anti-austerity ticket. When I wrote of Greece having a peasant society I was not being insulting, I was stating a fact. They used the money and credit available to them to live a rich man's lifestyle on a peasants work ethic. Now it's payback time in more ways than one and to attempt to blackmail the Euro zone, the ECB, and even the whole of the rest of the EU nation states is nothing short of criminal. Give them nothing, let the whole nation pay the price for what they have done and continue to try to do. As an avowed Christian your views on the rest of humanity shock me. You really are a very bitter man. Why should the people of Greece (or any nation) have to rummage around in garbage bins to feed their families any longer whilst the architects of this nonsense remain in their 5 star hotels in Brussels living off their expense accounts and tax-free living. The whole euro project was flawed from the kick off and the sooner it all comes crashing down the sooner the people of europe can get back to living their lives without this noose of debt dragging them into the gutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It is only due to the enormous conceit of the Euro hierarchy that the situation has gone on for so long. The only way Greece can pay its debts to the rest of Europe and the IMF is if the rest of Europe and the IMF give it the money to do so. It has been that way for years and there is no end in sight. Give them 5 billion now and they will need 15 billion in six months. So the question is, what is the point of the charade? Who is it serving to prolong the agony that is Greece in the flawed Euro? Spot on. All the money that Greece is being given is just being used to bailout the same creditors who are funding the handouts. None of it is going to the Greek people. Madness. Unfortunately the other option is to let Greece walk, lick it's wounds and then probably recover quite successfully and show the EU up for being the self serving empire-building bureaucracy that it is. On top of that a lot of self important people in Brussels will be in danger of losing their perks for life when the rest of Europe starts to revolt too. This is all about maintaining the illusion of power than anything else. Do you really see the Greek attempt to steal from the ECB in that way? What about the huge tax evasion that takes place in Greece? Or the laziness combined with the demand for a standard of living that the hard workers of Northern Europe work to achieve? Or the pensions that are handed out? Where do you think that the money comes from to meet the bills those things create comes from? Greece went cap in hands and promises on lips to change their hedonistic lifestyle and address the tax evasion, no not evasion, blatant fiddling and on the basis of those promises were loaned billions to tide the economy over while the necessary changes were put in place, changes that meant accepting austerity as part of the get well program, but having got the gelt - immediately did nothing. The money they were loaned was used to perpetuate the profligate living rather than as a cushion during the get well process which was the deal on which the loan had been made. I have not one iota of pity for the Greek people, especially after they elected the party in office on an anti-austerity ticket. When I wrote of Greece having a peasant society I was not being insulting, I was stating a fact. They used the money and credit available to them to live a rich man's lifestyle on a peasants work ethic. Now it's payback time in more ways than one and to attempt to blackmail the Euro zone, the ECB, and even the whole of the rest of the EU nation states is nothing short of criminal. Give them nothing, let the whole nation pay the price for what they have done and continue to try to do. As an avowed Christian your views on the rest of humanity shock me. You really are a very bitter man. Why should the people of Greece (or any nation) have to rummage around in garbage bins to feed their families any longer whilst the architects of this nonsense remain in their 5 star hotels in Brussels living off their expense accounts and tax-free living. The whole euro project was flawed from the kick off and the sooner it all comes crashing down the sooner the people of europe can get back to living their lives without this noose of debt dragging them into the gutter. Firstly your idea of Christianity is more than a little wrong. Being a Christian is not to be a soft touch happy clappy. Many churches that espouse Christianity are actually far from being so, but that's a separate issue. The Euro and the ECB was like so many things, great in theory but fatally flawed in practice because what is missing is a common treasury and a common tax and benefits structure. To blame the ECB is wrong. It is like blaming people for taking out a bank loan after promising to meet the payback criteria and then having got the loan not meeting the agreed terms and conditions. What is even worse was to use the credit status as a result of being a member of the Euro zone to get credit from third parties. The problems that Greece rightly face are 100% down to Greek dishonesty. The whole nation now deserve all they get after electing the anti-austerity government. Bring it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It is only due to the enormous conceit of the Euro hierarchy that the situation has gone on for so long. The only way Greece can pay its debts to the rest of Europe and the IMF is if the rest of Europe and the IMF give it the money to do so. It has been that way for years and there is no end in sight. Give them 5 billion now and they will need 15 billion in six months. So the question is, what is the point of the charade? Who is it serving to prolong the agony that is Greece in the flawed Euro? Spot on. All the money that Greece is being given is just being used to bailout the same creditors who are funding the handouts. None of it is going to the Greek people. Madness. Unfortunately the other option is to let Greece walk, lick it's wounds and then probably recover quite successfully and show the EU up for being the self serving empire-building bureaucracy that it is. On top of that a lot of self important people in Brussels will be in danger of losing their perks for life when the rest of Europe starts to revolt too. This is all about maintaining the illusion of power than anything else. Do you really see the Greek attempt to steal from the ECB in that way? What about the huge tax evasion that takes place in Greece? Or the laziness combined with the demand for a standard of living that the hard workers of Northern Europe work to achieve? Or the pensions that are handed out? Where do you think that the money comes from to meet the bills those things create comes from? Greece went cap in hands and promises on lips to change their hedonistic lifestyle and address the tax evasion, no not evasion, blatant fiddling and on the basis of those promises were loaned billions to tide the economy over while the necessary changes were put in place, changes that meant accepting austerity as part of the get well program, but having got the gelt - immediately did nothing. The money they were loaned was used to perpetuate the profligate living rather than as a cushion during the get well process which was the deal on which the loan had been made. I have not one iota of pity for the Greek people, especially after they elected the party in office on an anti-austerity ticket. When I wrote of Greece having a peasant society I was not being insulting, I was stating a fact. They used the money and credit available to them to live a rich man's lifestyle on a peasants work ethic. Now it's payback time in more ways than one and to attempt to blackmail the Euro zone, the ECB, and even the whole of the rest of the EU nation states is nothing short of criminal. Give them nothing, let the whole nation pay the price for what they have done and continue to try to do. As an avowed Christian your views on the rest of humanity shock me. You really are a very bitter man. Why should the people of Greece (or any nation) have to rummage around in garbage bins to feed their families any longer whilst the architects of this nonsense remain in their 5 star hotels in Brussels living off their expense accounts and tax-free living. The whole euro project was flawed from the kick off and the sooner it all comes crashing down the sooner the people of europe can get back to living their lives without this noose of debt dragging them into the gutter. Firstly your idea of Christianity is more than a little wrong. Being a Christian is not to be a soft touch happy clappy. Many churches that espouse Christianity are actually far from being so, but that's a separate issue. The Euro and the ECB was like so many things, great in theory but fatally flawed in practice because what is missing is a common treasury and a common tax and benefits structure. To blame the ECB is wrong. It is like blaming people for taking out a bank loan after promising to meet the payback criteria and then having got the loan not meeting the agreed terms and conditions. What is even worse was to use the credit status as a result of being a member of the Euro zone to get credit from third parties. The problems that Greece rightly face are 100% down to Greek dishonesty. The whole nation now deserve all they get after electing the anti-austerity government. Bring it on. I too wish for Greece to tell the EU to stick it and decide go it alone. Although clearly for more humane reasons than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The Greeks can't tell the ECB or the EU to stick it and 'just' walk away. The creditors will use every means at their disposal to recoup the debt - and rightly so. Assets should and will be sized, limitations will be applied to their EU membership (assuming they are not expelled which they should be) and what the Greek people will do is anybodies guess. But Greece is not alone in this respect though the extent of the problem that the other nation states face is thus far orders of magnitude less severe but if Greece is seen, or even perceived to get away with not complying with the need austerity measures then Spain, Italy, Portugal, and nation states that have recently been granted accession would soon jump on the bandwagon. A real concern is the that Greece may play the 'document so called asylum seekers' card and in effect open the door to the hoards of burglars or even worse ISIS terrorists to Europe. That would be a disaster and that could indeed result in war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The Greeks can't tell the ECB or the EU to stick it and 'just' walk away. The creditors will use every means at their disposal to recoup the debt - and rightly so. Assets should and will be sized, limitations will be applied to their EU membership (assuming they are not expelled which they should be) and what the Greek people will do is anybodies guess. But Greece is not alone in this respect though the extent of the problem that the other nation states face is thus far orders of magnitude less severe but if Greece is seen, or even perceived to get away with not complying with the need austerity measures then Spain, Italy, Portugal, and nation states that have recently been granted accession would soon jump on the bandwagon. A real concern is the that Greece may play the 'document so called asylum seekers' card and in effect open the door to the hoards of burglars or even worse ISIS terrorists to Europe. That would be a disaster and that could indeed result in war. WTF are you on about? Document asylum seekers? No idea what planet you're residing at the moment but one thing they could do is seek assistance from Russia and Putin, who I am sure would be only too happy to help, along with conditions, and stick two fingers up to the west. In fact that might not be the worst option for a lot of europe at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 but one thing they could do is seek assistance from Russia and Putin, who I am sure would be only too happy to help, along with conditions, and stick two fingers up to the west. In fact that might not be the worst option for a lot of europe at the moment. Yes. That could be interesting. I think he'd soon get fed up of the never ending debt though. He's got a few problems of his own in that direction, particularly since the collapse of the oil price. It depends how silly Putin wants to be. If he's really up for a laugh, come out of NATO and give us use of your naval bases and we stop you starving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee Cee Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Now I understand why Greece is in such financial difficulties. The Daily Mail have just published a picture of their Finance Minister sat astride a motorbike. Surely they could have found someone more sensible for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The Greeks can't tell the ECB or the EU to stick it and 'just' walk away. The creditors will use every means at their disposal to recoup the debt - and rightly so. Assets should and will be sized, limitations will be applied to their EU membership (assuming they are not expelled which they should be) and what the Greek people will do is anybodies guess. But Greece is not alone in this respect though the extent of the problem that the other nation states face is thus far orders of magnitude less severe but if Greece is seen, or even perceived to get away with not complying with the need austerity measures then Spain, Italy, Portugal, and nation states that have recently been granted accession would soon jump on the bandwagon. A real concern is the that Greece may play the 'document so called asylum seekers' card and in effect open the door to the hoards of burglars or even worse ISIS terrorists to Europe. That would be a disaster and that could indeed result in war. WTF are you on about? Document asylum seekers? No idea what planet you're residing at the moment but one thing they could do is seek assistance from Russia and Putin, who I am sure would be only too happy to help, along with conditions, and stick two fingers up to the west. In fact that might not be the worst option for a lot of europe at the moment. Asylum seekers are documented if found legitimate ( which means they can lie convincingly ) and then can travel throughout the EU which of course means making best speed to where the hand outs are greatest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Anal sex aside, I quite like the Greek approach to life..They fucked it up of course, mainly by allowing their peasants to avoid paying taxes as well as their rich elite.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I really and sincerely hope that they renege on repaying their debt and get kicked out of the Euro zone and the EU. The government lied through their teeth to gain accession, the public jumped on every opportunity to con at every step, they extorted cash from the power house state, and thought they could continue to get away with it as did the Manx government with the VAT swindle. Greece is a peasant nation. It has used other people's money to work to the lazy peasant hand to mouth come day go day while living to a standard that their efforts do not justify. It's now quite literally pay back time and the pay back needed an end to Spanish Practices and working properly like the people in the EU power house states but they have not as well as pay back and servicing of the loans from the ECB. So now they should be MADE to reduce their living standard to the level that they can afford. Hardship? Yes. But it'll be the pain of reverting to the peasant lifestyle that they can afford based on the work that they are prepared to undertake. And the sooner the better. Otherwise the whole country is not just a country of liars and cheats, it'll be a country of thieves too and that they must not be allowed to get away with. The only problem I heard is that a French and also a German Bank do not get their revolving door fee. Don't ask for details as I'm sure those in the know would know what that means, but I'm just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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