State Sponsored Slaughter

[Monkey boy]

I wonder who the next bogeymen of the Uk will be?Its been the commies,the irish,the argies,the ragheads in my lifetime.The Manx government should denounce the parliament in England for the bullies/war mongerers that they are.

 

"commies". Yeah, because that was all makey uppy.

"the irish". Did we imagine all those bombs going off in London, Manchester, etc?

"the argies" You mean the ones who invaded a Soverign dependency?

"the ragheads" I'm guessing you've been living in a cave for the last 10 - 11 years...Its okay, your herring and spuds are still safe.

 

Always the other sides fault - a common feature of all these conflicts & countless others down the centuries.

[MilitantDogOwner]

864531 - civilians killed in Iraq, from the first site you linked to & that figure is 2010, so yes, hundreds of thousands of civilians dead - unless you choose to cherry pick the statistics.

 

You mean like you, you quoted Barry who was talking about Afghanistan.

 

Again not sure of credibility (this is the interwebs after all): http://ofbuckleyandb...ce-in-iraq-war/

 

"Researchers have found that while coalition forces accounted for 12 per cent of deaths and Iraqi forces 11 per cent, the vast majority of violent killings were killed by unknown perpetrators.

 

Of those by far the biggest proportion – around a third of the total – was summary executions and kidnappings between rival factions and gangs as law and order broke down.

 

The study by King’s College London, published in PLoS Medicine, provides the most detailed assessment so far of civilian deaths in the course of the conflict."

 

So just as in Afghanistan, while there have been unfortunate residual casualties of war, the majority of deaths, once again, can be laid at the feet of the bad guys.

[MilitantDogOwner]

I really really really hate your views MDO, your opinions are all that is wrong with humanity. In fact I am going to ignore all your posts from here on in.

 

Excuse me?

 

How is my opinion "all that is wrong with humanity" for correcting Monkey Boys claims that "State Sponsored Slaughter" is a fair assessment of Iraq/Afghanistan when it has been shown that THE MAJORITY of casulaties have been caused by the Iraqi/Afghan's own country men.

 

I think you need to have a sit down.

[MilitantDogOwner]

I wonder who the next bogeymen of the Uk will be?Its been the commies,the irish,the argies,the ragheads in my lifetime.The Manx government should denounce the parliament in England for the bullies/war mongerers that they are.

 

"commies". Yeah, because that was all makey uppy.

"the irish". Did we imagine all those bombs going off in London, Manchester, etc?

"the argies" You mean the ones who invaded a Soverign dependency?

"the ragheads" I'm guessing you've been living in a cave for the last 10 - 11 years...Its okay, your herring and spuds are still safe.

 

Always the other sides fault - a common feature of all these conflicts & countless others down the centuries.

 

I'm sure the other side says the same.

[Monkey boy]

Barrie was replying to my OP which mentioned both Iraq & Afghanistan & the nearly 1 million deaths caused by both conflicts at a cost of tens of billions to your government. That is state sponsored slaughter on a grand scale.

 

You can justify the deaths to yourself anyway you like - try to pass as many of them as you like onto the "bad guys" but they're still all dead. I think most people would find that slightly more than "unfortunate" but there you go.

[Monkey boy]

I wonder who the next bogeymen of the Uk will be?Its been the commies,the irish,the argies,the ragheads in my lifetime.The Manx government should denounce the parliament in England for the bullies/war mongerers that they are.

I'm sure they do - just not as often.

 

"commies". Yeah, because that was all makey uppy.

"the irish". Did we imagine all those bombs going off in London, Manchester, etc?

"the argies" You mean the ones who invaded a Soverign dependency?

"the ragheads" I'm guessing you've been living in a cave for the last 10 - 11 years...Its okay, your herring and spuds are still safe.

 

Always the other sides fault - a common feature of all these conflicts & countless others down the centuries.

 

I'm sure the other side says the same.

I'm sure they do, just not as often.

[MilitantDogOwner]

Barrie was replying to my OP which mentioned both Iraq & Afghanistan & the nearly 1 million deaths caused by both conflicts at a cost of tens of billions to your government. That is state sponsored slaughter on a grand scale.

 

You can justify the deaths to yourself anyway you like - try to pass as many of them as you like onto the "bad guys" but they're still all dead. I think most people would find that slightly more than "unfortunate" but there you go.

 

"the nearly 1 million deaths caused by both conflicts" - Of which at least 75% (if not more) are accounted for by non-ISAF/non-Coalition forces...

 

Yeah, I mean we could sit back and let them kill as many as they like. Look at Saddam, how many hundreds of thousands of his own country men, women and children did he kill to maintain power, before he was stopped.

 

I don't need to justify or pass off anything.

 

You are using emotive language "State Sponsored Slaughter"....it is actually "State Sponsored Attempt To Stop The Slaughter" but that doesnt fit the anti-British sentiment that you were aiming for.

[Monkey boy]

Barrie was replying to my OP which mentioned both Iraq & Afghanistan & the nearly 1 million deaths caused by both conflicts at a cost of tens of billions to your government. That is state sponsored slaughter on a grand scale.

 

You can justify the deaths to yourself anyway you like - try to pass as many of them as you like onto the "bad guys" but they're still all dead. I think most people would find that slightly more than "unfortunate" but there you go.

 

"the nearly 1 million deaths caused by both conflicts" - Of which at least 75% (if not more) are accounted for by non-ISAF/non-Coalition forces...

 

Yeah, I mean we could sit back and let them kill as many as they like. Look at Saddam, how many hundreds of thousands of his own country men, women and children did he kill to maintain power, before he was stopped.

 

I don't need to justify or pass off anything.

 

You are using emotive language "State Sponsored Slaughter"....it is actually "State Sponsored Attempt To Stop The Slaughter" but that doesnt fit the anti-British sentiment that you were aiming for.

Emotive language eh? I was using that language because it has often been directed on this forum, by people like yourself, to the odd unfortunate death at the TT or MGP. Given that you didn't object to its use then I find it staggering that you object to its use in conjunction with the odd hundred thousand or two ((ie. the ones you don't dispute) in this context.

You obviously don't have a problem with what's going on in these two countries & that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion - just don't come over here pretending to be appalled by our governments role in the TT & MGP, that's all I ask.

[MilitantDogOwner]

Barrie was replying to my OP which mentioned both Iraq & Afghanistan & the nearly 1 million deaths caused by both conflicts at a cost of tens of billions to your government. That is state sponsored slaughter on a grand scale.

 

You can justify the deaths to yourself anyway you like - try to pass as many of them as you like onto the "bad guys" but they're still all dead. I think most people would find that slightly more than "unfortunate" but there you go.

 

"the nearly 1 million deaths caused by both conflicts" - Of which at least 75% (if not more) are accounted for by non-ISAF/non-Coalition forces...

 

Yeah, I mean we could sit back and let them kill as many as they like. Look at Saddam, how many hundreds of thousands of his own country men, women and children did he kill to maintain power, before he was stopped.

 

I don't need to justify or pass off anything.

 

You are using emotive language "State Sponsored Slaughter"....it is actually "State Sponsored Attempt To Stop The Slaughter" but that doesnt fit the anti-British sentiment that you were aiming for.

Emotive language eh? I was using that language because it has often been directed on this forum, by people like yourself, to the odd unfortunate death at the TT or MGP. Given that you didn't object to its use then I find it staggering that you object to its use in conjunction with the odd hundred thousand or two ((ie. the ones you don't dispute) in this context.

You obviously don't have a problem with what's going on in these two countries & that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion - just don't come over here pretending to be appalled by our governments role in the TT & MGP, that's all I ask.

 

Ah, and now we get to the heart of the matter, this was all about the TT.

 

Who is pretending? I am genuinly appauled that the IOM Government is using tax payers money in a State Sponsored race* in which someone is going to to die, not might die, but with statisticle certainty, will die.

 

* As in for entertainment, not as in a warzone or theathre of conflict. I know its easy for you to get the two mixed up.

 

After all this was just one enormous troll, to get your axe 'a' grinding about people having issues with the TT. Nice job.

[Monkey boy]

Yeah, hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians being slaughtered doesn't bother me atall. Ofcourse it does you fuckwitt.

But you are right, part of my OP was about the TT. I am genuinely bewildered that you can be appalled by the IOM government spending taxpayer's money on the TT, but seem only too comfortable with your own government spending billions slaughtering hundreds of thousands of civilians, not to mention service men in two of the world's oil richest countries.

Now you may justify this as "state sponsored attempt to stop the slaughter" but if it really was as altruistic as that then why has the slaughter in Zimbabwe (a former british colony) not attracted the same attention?

 

Dead is dead, I really don't see the distinction of "race" or "Warzone", apart from in one the casulty rate & cost to the taxpayer is several hundred thousand times higher than the other & a majority of the casulaties are not willing participants.

[MilitantDogOwner]

...your own government spending billions slaughtering hundreds of thousands of civilians...

 

Ah, now I see where your confusion is coming from.

 

The British government isn't sending anyone anywhere to "Slaughter" anyone. And certainly not in the "hundreds of thousands" as been clearly illustrated to you.

 

You're welcome.

[P.K.]

There are still many hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians dead, however you want to dress it up Barrie.

 

Civilians have died in every conflict you care to mention. Same old same old. I wonder how many of the civilian dead had a heavily bruised right shoulder?

 

Pakistan is on the brink of becoming a failed NUCLEAR state. If Afghan falls to the Taliban you can kiss Pakistan, and probably your arse, goodbye...

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Afghanistan asked the UN for help in 2001 and which led to the UN supporting the formation of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF)

Afghanistan did not ask for any help. Firstly, there is no afghanistan thing that asked. If you mean the Afghan people, the obvious answer is that they didn't ask anything.

 

Moreover, the conflict began by a decision for action from the US and British governments. It was the British government that changed the purpose of the conflict to regime change upon convincing the US government.

 

 

The Isle of Man is part of the British state...Its legislature members must swear an oath of loyalty to the Queen who is head of state so all in all the Isle of Man is every bit as implicated in Afghanistan...Bit hard I would have thought to denounce the forces of the Crown when you are a Crown Dependency and your legislators take the oath???

I think you are right to mention this. It is a bit stupid to think that the United Kingdom is something separate to the Island when it comes to the action of the British Armed Forces. Manx people servce in the forces; money is paid to British government to support defence; the Manx government always lends formal public support to British action; and most importantly, the Manx people can end the relationship of the Island to the UK in respect of defence. The Manx people are just as responsible as the people of Great Britain in the grubby wars fought in their name.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

 

Of course not. In war there are residual civillian casualties.

There cannot be any acceptance of civilian deaths in an utterly immoral and unjust war. Even from a conventional (non-leftist like mine) political outlook, even in a just war, it is very, very difficult to justify civilian deaths.

 

 

 

And lets not forget the Taliban have no problems or issues with killing their own country men and women.

Doesn't matter about what the Taliban have done or will do in the country in the context of the war. They should not have been fought in the first place.

[Alias]

The study by King’s College London, published in PLoS Medicine, provides the most detailed assessment so far of civilian deaths in the course of the conflict."

 

So just as in Afghanistan, while there have been unfortunate residual casualties of war, the majority of deaths, once again, can be laid at the feet of the bad guys.

Whichever way you choose to spin it, much of the culpability for the mass casualties and fatalities rests on the western governments and their respective militaries. Both 'wars' were rushed, suffered from lack of planning, with many senior military and politician figures cajoled into supporting it.

 

IMO a country is wholly responsible for the humanitarian situation a conflict it chooses to start creates. Had they taken the time to plan the aftermath and focus on securing the country rather than defeating an ill-equipped enemy, then these insurgency factions would not have gained the traction that they have.