Qantas Grounds All Flights.

[G_Kelly]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-15504838

 

QANTAS has grounded its entire domestic and international fleet of aircraft and will lock out all staff involved in its industrial dispute from Monday night.

The airline will be grounded as long as it takes to reach a conclusion on this," said chief executive Alan Joyce.

 

We are locking out until the unions withdraw their extreme claim and reach agreement with us," Mr Joyce has told a press conference

"They are trashing our strategy and our brand," he said. "They are deliberately destabilising the company and there is no end in sight.

Mr Joyce warned yesterday that half the airline would "be gone" within a year - with tens of thousands of jobs potentially at risk - if unions pursued their industrial campaign for that long.

"if it goes for more than a year, we estimate we will have to shut down half of Qantas operations. That's 50 per cent of Qantas, gone."

 

 

 

This could be intresting to see how this pans out.

 

So the unions want a strike to save there jobs, and have maybe just put the last nail in the coffin on there jobs. ironic you could say.

Nice to see a company standing up to them.

[Mission]

I like the Aussie spirit, they really don't take any shit.

 

You have to feel for their customers though.

[G_Kelly]

Must be a bugger for ones flyings.

 

But got to give them credit for sticking two fingers up at the union

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I am all too ready to jump into this with comments of 'aren't you a pair of arseholes' for supporting the Company on the basis of what they are doing to their staff and the implicit support given to companies who stand up to unions, but then I thought I would fair and give you both the benefit of the doubt, so...do you actually know what these people are striking about?

[G_Kelly]

Yes i do as happin has it.

 

you should know by now LDV that i dont tend to comment unless i know at least something i said.

 

 

 

I could say "your an asshole for siding with the unions" And what these unions would rather see a company go down the pan than modernize there practices and keep trading to give as many staff a possable job. but i give you the benefit of the doubt. Do you actually know what these people are striking about

[Amadeus]

The airline has been hit by a series of costly strikes. Baggage handlers, engineers and pilots have been involved in the action which the company says is costing A$15m (US$16m) a week...

 

....Relations between the unions and Qantas management started deteriorating in August after the airline announced plans for restructuring and moving some operations to Asia. Qantas has a 65% share of the domestic Australian market, but has been making heavy losses on its international flights. The restructuring is expected to mean the loss of 1,000 jobs from its 35,000-strong workforce.

 

... "We are locking out until the unions withdraw their extreme claim and reach an agreement with us," Mr Joyce said. "This is the fastest way to ensure the airline gets back in the air." "They are trashing our strategy and our brand," he said. "They must decide just how badly they want to hurt Qantas, their members... and the travelling public."

 

 

It's a more than bold move - I guess the Union may not have expected that one.

[G_Kelly]

The pilots want

Same pilots rate for the new airline, which they say would rendor it useless as it would be un viable to run this new airline with the same pilot costs as qantas, But it is being an diffrent than qantas.

They receive higher salaries than most long-haul pilots across the globe and fly fewer hours, receive six weeks' leave and 25 sick days. They get cheap flights and upgrades

they want 7.5 per cent wage increase over the next three years, free international economy tickets upgraded to first class, upgradable to seats closer to the cockpit and $1 million to fund 2 union bosses each year.

10000 staff have agreed to the new terms and are happy, and are still going to be at work and will be paid.

 

O by the way the pilots get about 350k a year on long haul and work about 20 hours a week . 30% more than virgin pilots plus 6 weeks a year hol. god they are hard done by.

 

ground crew want

15% pay rise over 3 years

Introduction of a time serving classification structure where workers receive additional pay increases based on years of service rather than merit or qualifications.

if it all went though it would mean there earing about 170k a year

The union requires a guarantee that no change will be made to current work practices. ( so not allowd to update things and improvments. would fail Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) regulations)

The average remuneration package for a licensed engineer, is approximately $150,000 per year.

 

TUC want

18% pay rise over 3 years, A requirement that all labour hire staff be paid the same high rates as Qantas permanent staf

Restrictions on labour flexibility that would prevent Qantas from creating efficiencies and that would make Qantas less competitive (the TWU refers to this as their "job security" demand)

Last year the TWU negotiated a deal with Virgin, our biggest competitor in the domestic market, which is 12 per cent lower than Qantas rates and included a wage-freeze and a lower pay scale for new starters. Virgin also uses a non-union labour hire provider on lower rates of pay (double standereds)

 

Two years ago, Qantas and the TWU reached an agreement that saw the establishment of Qantas Ground Services (QGS), a wholly owned Qantas subsidiary. QGS was setup to provide staff for work that previously went to outside providers.

The TWU is now attempting to renege on this deal and drive up Qantas' costs. This demand would reduce Qantas' ability to operate in the highly competitive Australian aviation market.

 

Employees covered by the current agreement with the TWU are the highest paid in the Australian aviation industry

total cost of that lot over 3 years 3-400 million, on top of 200 million lossers per year

 

and these unions only represent about 7000 of the work force, and 10000 people have allready agreed to sign and be happy in there job.

 

Dear god its so bad working for them slaves i see.

 

And to put this in to propestic just a few things the unions have said leading up to this

We are just starting at the moment, the campaign needs to be able to last for a sustained period of time. Some sections are not involved but will be later. You don’t throw in all your battalions to the first skirmish.

This is very early days. We're at the start of a war.

If I was a person considering travel over the period up until Christmas I'd probably be looking at airlines other than Qantas because it's likely there will be some disruptions.

[manshimajin]

Being down in Australia recently I heard a lot about this. There is no doubt that the unions are pushing the limits but the situation has been far from helped by changes to CEO Alan Joyce's remuneration. For the 2010/11 year it had a potential increase of 71%. He actually got a 31% increase from $2.9 million to $3.8 million.

 

This is symptomatic of a bigger issue. Board remuneration committees can always justify very big increases for the CEO whilst the latter can always justify small increases for everyone else. But IMO when a company is going through hard times the CEO needs to lead from the front not from the back.

 

There seems to be a lot of this going on. Companies losing significant value (as Qantas has) whilst the CEO gets big remuneration increases. I recall there was discussion on the radio recently that there has been little relationship between increases in CEO remuneration, 'performance pay' and company value. Funnily enough 15 years ago I went to a meeting where a remuneration consultant presented his findings on bonus payments in the USA. There was almost a reverse correlation between the levels of bonus and the performance of the companies researched. It seemed to him that as a company went downhill the Board got increasingly desperate and paid the CEO more and more to 'recover' the situation without this actually being achieved.

 

I am not trying to justify the strikes but I think it behoves Boards and senior management to consider what signals it sends out if they are giving the CEO massive increases in tough times whilst preaching elt tightening to everyone else.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

The union requires a guarantee that no change will be made to current work practices. ( so not allowd to update things and improvments. would fail Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) regulations)

Then that would not make sense in any case and would be unenforceable. The union couldn't make the airline company abide by a legally binding agreement were there to be a new regulations. The regulation would override that agreement.

 

 

The average remuneration package for a licensed engineer, is approximately $150,000 per year.

But not many are licensed engineers. The majority are unskilled.

 

 

TUC want

18% pay rise over 3 years, A requirement that all labour hire staff be paid the same high rates as Qantas permanent stafRestrictions on labour flexibility that would prevent Qantas from creating efficiencies and that would make Qantas less competitive (the TWU refers to this as their "job security" demand)

My understanding from reading about it and the figures given is that the ground workers are aiming high for the purposes of bargaining to a lower amount. The airline would not agree to a 18% increase over three years. It is far higher than the rise they have offered, so the union tactics would be to bargain from a much higher amount.

 

 

Last year the TWU negotiated a deal with Virgin, our biggest competitor in the domestic market, which is 12 per cent lower than Qantas rates and included a wage-freeze and a lower pay scale for new starters. Virgin also uses a non-union labour hire provider on lower rates of pay (double standereds)

But what they do with Virgin doesn't mean they SHOULD do the same with Qantas. It depends on how far you can push and how great the

Two years ago, Qantas and the TWU reached an agreement that saw the establishment of Qantas Ground Services (QGS), a wholly owned Qantas subsidiary. QGS was setup to provide staff for work that previously went to outside providers.

 

 

The TWU is now attempting to renege on this deal and drive up Qantas' costs. This demand would reduce Qantas' ability to operate in the highly competitive Australian aviation market.

From what I understand, the unions are looking to make legally binding agreements on outsourcing arrangements and job security for employed staff.

 

 

Employees covered by the current agreement with the TWU are the highest paid in the Australian aviation industrytotal cost of that lot over 3 years 3-400 million, on top of 200 million lossers per year

They may be the highest paid, but the only wage rises that are being offered an annual 3% increase. Understandably, they want more.

 

...and these unions only represent about 7000 of the work force, and 10000 people have allready agreed to sign and be happy in there job.

Only. 7000 is a lot of workers and well over the majority. I'm afraid that if other workers do not wish to join the union or join action then they have to wait and see what happens at the sidelines.

 

And to put this in to propestic just a few things the unions have said leading up to this

We are just starting at the moment, the campaign needs to be able to last for a sustained period of time. Some sections are not involved but will be later. You don’t throw in all your battalions to the first skirmish.

This is very early days. We're at the start of a war.

I don't find anything wrong with that rhetoric. It is a 'battle' of sorts. It is the union (workers) against the company.

Clearly the workers would like to keep their jobs, but they would be forced to accept meagre wage increases were they to do nothing. The only option is to push as far you can to see what you can win.

 

And my comments about 'arseholes' were more related to the outlook that cheers on the companies when the unions take industrial action, as if the Company is by default the side to support.

[Fred]

Curious when did 7000 out of 17000 become a majority?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Where did you read 17,000?

[ballaughbiker]

O by the way the pilots get about 350k a year on long haul and work about 20 hours a week

 

Just wondered, is that GBP or AUD? And where do you get 20 hours a week from?

[Fred]

You quoted 7000 union members and also that 10000 had agreed to the new deal