I Am The 53%

[Monkey boy]

As I said, I'm not referring to pure communism, but what happens when it is implemented.

I'm aware that China and the Soviet Union were not truly Communist, however that was the principle they were based upon.

No form of government is currently what it says it is, democracy is very very very far from being democratic in most of the "Western world", but I do not think we would be better off with another attempt at Communist society.

I'm sorry if what I'm saying doesn't seem to make much sense, but as you say, despite attempts there hasn't been large scale Communism for a very long time (though of course it has worked well in small scale sections where everyone has agreed to live as such.)

 

"Any amount of study" may well be horrible phrasing on my part. I just mean that all the research I've put into attempts at Communism on a large scale with only partial consent has ended pretty negatively with Governments that was unable to feed their people, provide stability or avoid poverty. I may well be missing out on attempts, but countrywide I can't think of anywhere it has worked.

A lot of the negative effects of the end of "communism were brought about by external pressures, eg. the yanks doing deals with the middle east over oil to devalue the soviets exports etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, the 20th century's attempt at communism were far from perfect & perhaps doomed to failure but the idea that communism doesn't work & represents a lunatic fringe based on these "experiments" is flawed to say the least.

Where has the free reign of capitalism born in the wake of the end of communism got us?

Communism or atleast socialism could work but it wouldn't happen overnight & would take several generations to educate the selfish greed out of us. The big problem would be controlling corruption from within & external pressures from without.

[Evil Goblin]

Communism or atleast socialism could work but it wouldn't happen overnight & would take several generations to educate the selfish greed out of us. The big problem would be controlling corruption from within & external pressures from without.

I'm afraid that a communist or socialist society will never work because its idealistic tenets are simply in conflict with human nature. Some people will always seek advantage and power over others and corruption is inevitable. The fight for scarce resources, both within and without the country, will also continue, irrespective of the type of political structure.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

As I said, I'm not referring to pure communism, but what happens when it is implemented.

It never has been. I cannot think of one nation where an effort has been made to create a communist society. What has happened often is a small minority removing colonial rule or rule by the bourgeois and replacing that with another elite.

It could be argued and is commonly thought that Lenin and Mao had the intention to create a communist society. However, the methods they employed failed and were bound to fail. I don't think you can have a vanguard party becoming the rulers of a country and then expect them to relinquish power. The State has to be removed, not turned into the sole driver of the economy.

 

I'm aware that China and the Soviet Union were not truly Communist, however that was the principle they were based upon.

Yet regardless of what principles were proclaimed as being worthy, these two countries were not socialist during much of their existence and were never communist. And nor was communism ever attempted in either.

 

No form of government is currently what it says it is, democracy is very very very far from being democratic in most of the "Western world", but I do not think we would be better off with another attempt at Communist society.

We may be worse off but we may not. What I am feel quite certain about is that liberal democracy (which goes hand in hand with current economic practices) will change very much as resources become more scarce and as people react to the increasing power of private organisations. Either capitalist government will have to defend itself from re-inventing new ways to control the populace or it will fall.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Where has the free reign of capitalism born in the wake of the end of communism got us?

Just as there has never been communism, there has never been capitalism (i.e. free reign capitalism). Capitalist practices cannot predominate in society for long without the support of government. And certainly, you would never see the degree of corporate power you do today and in its current form and functioning without liberal democratic government. Just think, for example, what the effect would be where there was government aid for corporations that were on the brink of collapse due to bankrupty? And what about the subsidies for many corporations? And then you have banking, control of currency, the productivity of the public sector, etc. Government has a huge role in western countries.

 

Communism or atleast socialism could work but it wouldn't happen overnight & would take several generations to educate the selfish greed out of us. The big problem would be controlling corruption from within & external pressures from without.

Corruption by whom?

[cheeky boy]

In the old Soviet Union a small elite held all the power and lived in shameless luxury whilst the rest of the population were kept in check by communist ideology and tough police

 

In todays western society a small elite has all the power and controls the money whilst our populace is kept in check by consumerist ideology and tough police

 

The main difference between the two systems seems to be that we have just got more stuff

[Lxxx]

In the old Soviet Union a small elite held all the power and lived in shameless luxury whilst the rest of the population were kept in check by communist ideology and tough police

 

In todays western society a small elite has all the power and controls the money whilst our populace is kept in check by consumerist ideology and tough police

 

The main difference between the two systems seems to be that we have just got more stuff

 

Good point.

 

We can all argue about our 'isms' till the cows come home, and the merits of each, but we're just peasants arguiing over trivialities. The elite will always be at the top and the proles will always be at the bottom, they may change the 'ism' for a while to give us a different persepctive on our slavery, but essentially it's the same model, save a few tweaks.

[Lxxx]

A measure of how close the various systems are to collapsing can be seen by the practices and actions of the police forces and state security apparatus. One look at the UK and the US at the moment tells us everything we need to know about where we are heading soon.

 

 

[pongo]

That ancient Saracen was driven by anti capitalists protestors who had painted it in Police colours (that photograph is from the G20 protests in London in 2009).

 

The cops would have drones these days.

 

A measure of how close the various systems are to collapsing can be seen by the practices and actions of the police forces and state security apparatus. One look at the UK and the US at the moment tells us everything we need to know about where we are heading soon.

 

 

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Good point.

 

We can all argue about our 'isms' till the cows come home, and the merits of each, but we're just peasants arguiing over trivialities. The elite will always be at the top and the proles will always be at the bottom, they may change the 'ism' for a while to give us a different persepctive on our slavery, but essentially it's the same model, save a few tweaks.

But the 'isms' aren't just as perspective but come with specific arguments about the reasons for the problem and ideas as to how resolve it. And most importantly about what sort of society people would want.