Butterflies Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Link to story No. YOU deserve to die Abdel-Qader Ali, for your violent, callous, cruel, malicious, pathetic self. If I could get to you, I would kill you myself. The men in these countries are like animals, so concerned about controllingr women, because by controlling women they can control their progeny. These men need stopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Wrong. These people live in a different reality with different values. To US they are animals, in fact less than animals, but to them what they do is right and proper. Their beliefs give them not only justification for what they do, in many cases they MUST DO what they do or become as “guilty” as the “sinner”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Yeah, religion screws people up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endovelicus Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 It's easy to focus on one person and feel the hatred that 'butterflies' expressed, it's true that there's a complete mindset that has, and will continue to, cause horrifying incidents such as this. For example, the girl's brothers took part in the killing: " I know God is blessing me for what I did," he said, his voice swelling with pride. "My sons are by my side, and they were men enough to help me finish the life of someone who just brought shame to ours." And the official view? "Sources have indicated that Abdel-Qader, who works in the health department, has been asked to leave because of the bad publicity, yet he will continue to draw a salary. And it has been alleged by one senior unnamed official in the Basra governorate that he has received financial support by a local politician to enable him to 'disappear' to Jordan for a few weeks, 'until the story has been forgotten' - the usual practice in the 30-plus cases of 'honour' killings that have been registered since January alone." It is not merely religionthat is to blame; it is also the determination of the men who follow it to use it to control their womenfolk utterly and completely. It has been suggested that the burkha is worn to prevent men having lustful thoughts; might I suggest that it would be more effective if the piece of material missing from around the eyes was grafted across the eyes of all the men? Problem solved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Goblin Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Hi Spook – I know you will disagree with me but human beings are animals the same as dogs, cats, etc. are animals. Our greatest blessing (and greatest curse) is our specialized brain whose characteristics give rise to most of our problems. One of these problems is our holding of opinions, moral or otherwise and we seem to have a penchant for imposing our views on our fellow humans. This gives rise to conflict and warfare between societies (and within societies). Abhorrent as it may seem to us, these people, as you say, inhabit a different world from us and the safest thing is to leave them to live their lives in their ways and for us to get on with living our lives in our ways i.e. we have to learn to tolerate each others’ ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 But in the minds of these people, both men and women, to NOT follow the dictates of their religion would be to invite an eternity in hell with greater certainty than the most devout Christian feels let alone has. To the votaries of Islam life on earth is a minuscule speck of time on the road to paradise or the eternal fires that doesn't even come close to having the possibility of salvation. OF COURSE IT IS WRONG TO DO WHAT THEY DO. But the evil lies not in the individual, the evil lies in the vile cult in which they are ensnared. It is NOT a religion in the meaning of any other religion. It is the very antithesis of the genuine Abrahamic religions with all their faults despite the false claims to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think they see it as a religion even if you don't and the apparent (simplified) justification "god made me do it" seems to surpass all other reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Spook - you have a wonderful way of allowing people to escape individual responsibility under the cover of religion. The evil does lie in an individual when they behave in such a way. People are not chattles which belong to a family, a clan, or a religion. They are individuals who should be able to live their lives as they wish to without the threat of arbitary violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Spook - you have a wonderful way of allowing people to escape individual responsibility under the cover of religion. The evil does lie in an individual when they behave in such a way. People are not chattles which belong to a family, a clan, or a religion. They are individuals who should be able to live their lives as they wish to without the threat of arbitary violence. But in Islam they can't. There is little, or more probably NO likelihood that you or I would, even in the face of absolute certainty of an eternity in the fires of hell for ourselves, kill or injure our children for not abiding by Gods law, but others and probably most people faced with such absolute certainty would. Certainly so if by killing their child they might open up the doors to paradise for the child. We really can not compare ourselves, be we Atheist to Zoroastrian with Muslims. Muslims really do have a totally different perception of life and their place in the universe from the rest of us. Even the most hirsute Amish doesn't live in a world as separated from the rest of us as the devout Muslim. “Worlds Apart” doesn't even do it justice, which is why it is easy to blame the individual the real blame lies in what drives him or her with such irresistible power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endovelicus Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 All religion is evil. "In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful and that they may give to God more copious thanks for it, they are permitted perfectly to behold the sufferings of the damned . . . The saints will rejoice in the punishment of the damned." [st Thomas Aquinas] Thus the vision of heaven of one of Christianity’s greatest theologians is a vision of the sadistic enjoyment of endless torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Goblin Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 All religion is evil. Would you consider Buddhism to be evil? And how would you define "evil"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 All religion is evil. Would you consider Buddhism to be evil? And how would you define "evil"? Buddhism isn't a religion (in the sense of Christianity or Islam). It is more of a following, or to put it another a life path. Buddhism can be summed up as "Do good things, because it the cool thing to do".... Christianity (as an example) can't be summed up as simply "Do good things, because God said so or you will go to hell." Catholic branded Christianiy "Do good things, because when you were born, you were born already in the dog house and need to redeem yourself for "mans" sins". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endovelicus Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Religions - the ones that teach the presence of an invisible being who is omnipotent and omnipresent - are (or were) simply measures for enforcing social control using the threat of eternal punishment to make less well educated members of society behave in a way that the powers-that-be find acceptable. The fact that such invisible beings are shown to be narcissistic, vengeful, spiteful and mysoginistic - as well as utterly incompetent - doesn't seem to matter as long as its possible to win their 'love.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I don't believe that it is the case today that 'powers that be' are behind the indoctination of people. Besides, there are far better ways of directing attention and focus and shaping behaviour than by religion. If you truly believe it is about 'powers that be', who do you think they are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 I'm very confused with the Quran as it can be read in many different ways as also interpretations. "O mankind! We created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know and honor each other (not that you should despise one another). Indeed the most honorable of you in the sight of God is the most righteous." (Quran, 49:13) (The Prophet Muhammad) Islam does not allow or sanctify the killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. According to the Qur'an and Hadith (sayings of Prophet Muhammad) life is sacrosanct. (The Wisdom Fund) So was she lawfully or unlawfully killed as per her religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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