Cambon Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Well that makes about as much sense as keeping all your money in a high street bank. If I were a gold and silver exchange employee I'd be advising people to sell their gold and silver 'while prices are high.' My advice is, if you do have it, do not sell at any price and if you do have any spare currency sat in bank then I would advise spending it on gold and silver bullion and coins. But as always, that's just my opinion, people will do whatever they feel comfortable with and if you haven't done the research I can well understand opting for cash, as that's people's comfort zone, however misguided that notion is. Lxxx - you should not be advising people to buy gold. Silver, yes, gold no. Gold is considered a "Risk On" commodity at the moment. This is obvious as it's fiat value is moving with equity markets, which is exactly the opposite of what it does when it is a safe haven. This means the price is at high risk of collapse. Virtually all other precious metals are still "Risk Off". If someone already holds gold purchased when the price was low ($600 or less) then hang on to it. The other thing is make sure your portfolio is diversified (that includes cash in the bank), and follow it's progress daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Goblin Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Given that the purpose of all investment is to fund future expenditure it follows that investments always need to be realisable in exchange for whatever medium of exchange is current in a society. At present this is fiat money. If the solids really hit the fan then money will probably be regarded as largely worthless and items will have a value consistent with their practical usefulness. I doubt that bars of silver or gold or the like will be seen as very useful - in such circumstances the old stock of baked beans will win the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Well that makes about as much sense as keeping all your money in a high street bank. If I were a gold and silver exchange employee I'd be advising people to sell their gold and silver 'while prices are high.' My advice is, if you do have it, do not sell at any price and if you do have any spare currency sat in bank then I would advise spending it on gold and silver bullion and coins. But as always, that's just my opinion, people will do whatever they feel comfortable with and if you haven't done the research I can well understand opting for cash, as that's people's comfort zone, however misguided that notion is. Lxxx - you should not be advising people to buy gold. Silver, yes, gold no. Gold is considered a "Risk On" commodity at the moment. This is obvious as it's fiat value is moving with equity markets, which is exactly the opposite of what it does when it is a safe haven. This means the price is at high risk of collapse. Virtually all other precious metals are still "Risk Off". If someone already holds gold purchased when the price was low ($600 or less) then hang on to it. The other thing is make sure your portfolio is diversified (that includes cash in the bank), and follow it's progress daily. I'm not a financial advisor, I don't even work in the finance industry. People can choose to ignore me if they want to, it's only an opinion. I don't necessarily agree with your points on gold but I won't go into them on here as I've explained my thoughts before and you just have people getting all arsey about it with their smart comments. However I will say that the gold and silver markets are being artificially suppressed using a number of tactics at the moment to make people, from large institutional investors right the way down to the man on the street, think it's not an attractive proposition and to keep their fiat currency in the markets/banks so it doesn't collapse. They have an agenda to keep this whole thing on life support as long as possible, and that's one of the ways they're doing it. If you follow what they're doing closely (which I do) it's obvious, but to an observer looking in it looks like it's working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Given that the purpose of all investment is to fund future expenditure it follows that investments always need to be realisable in exchange for whatever medium of exchange is current in a society. At present this is fiat money. If the solids really hit the fan then money will probably be regarded as largely worthless and items will have a value consistent with their practical usefulness. I doubt that bars of silver or gold or the like will be seen as very useful - in such circumstances the old stock of baked beans will win the day. So by that token why do people buy antique works of art, or bottles of fine wine and store them, or a house that they rent out hoping it will increase in value? I've always said, make sure your personal situation is sorted before buying anything to protect your wealth, but there's only so many tins of baked beans you can buy! If the SHTF then very quickly huge swathes of capital will be heading for somewhere to park itself, somewhere out of the markets and in a safer haven. They will want to have something physical, that has no counter-party risk and in that instance land and monetary metals will be high on the list. Metals don't need to be useful, they are, and always have been, a store of value. You then have a window to sell your metals at an inflated price for a lot more currency you bought it for, to then do with what you wish. I must say that this whole thing sickens me a bit as I would much rather not be thinking like this as in an ideal world this system would crash and burn and we would get a much fairer system in it's place which wouldn't be based on materialism, the obsession with money and corruption. However history has shown us that this is unlikely to ever happen with the vermin that sit at the top of the society always looking likely to be there, so this is just self preservation. I may be totally wrong, but I'm being pro-active about this whole thing collapsing and the sad thing is as I look around I see the majority are still oblivious and think 'the recession will be over in a year or two.'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Goblin Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 So by that token why do people buy antique works of art, or bottles of fine wine and store them, or a house that they rent out hoping it will increase in value? Personal enjoyment could be one cause for the sort of items you mention but I believe some people also see them as having investment value i.e. they believe they can always exchange them for the same or more money than they paid for them and that the money they receive (whatever form it takes) will itself have value in exchange for things they need. but there's only so many tins of baked beans you can buy! Some tinned soup, matches, shotguns and ammunition would also be handy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 So by that token why do people buy antique works of art, or bottles of fine wine and store them, or a house that they rent out hoping it will increase in value? Personal enjoyment could be one cause for the sort of items you mention but I believe some people also see them as having investment value i.e. they believe they can always exchange them for the same or more money than they paid for them and that the money they receive (whatever form it takes) will itself have value in exchange for things they need. but there's only so many tins of baked beans you can buy! Some tinned soup, matches, shotguns and ammunition would also be handy! True. I would list tinned food as well as a shotgun, as another form of 'precious metals' needed in a meltdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffontherock Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Oly popular theory regarding gold price behaviour in a bear market is that as equities fall, traders liquidate their gold positions to pay for margin calls on their stock. This happens until people believe the market has hit its bottom(prob about 3500 for the FTSE by about March on my calculations if the SHTF. Traders then pile into gold as one of the only investments that has NEVER lost all of itzs value and the price curve becomes exponential! it will take silver up with it too!! 200 dollar silver and 3000 dollar gold wouldnt be impossible if the euro does a few more plunges like it did today when that unfuckable lard arse Merkel opened her stupid fat mouth today and stated more negative intentions for the stability/bailout fund jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffontherock Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 candles, medical supplies, peanut butter, sugar, vegetable oil, grains, pulses, tinned and dried foods inc rice and pasta, herbs, seeds, fishing and hunting equipment, some kind of paraffin or wood fired stove, basic tools, water filters, tinned corned beef and tuna, flour, chocolate, alcohol, toilet rolls, fuel, warm clothes, waterproof clothes, waterproof boots, self protection(SELF DEFENSE CLASSES, A BIG MAGLITE TO CARRY AT NIGHT, PEPPER SPRAY, BASEBALL BAT, BOW AND ARROWS , A GUN AND LOTS OF BULLETS), food storage jars, and a couple more things............ 100 Items to Disappear First 1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.) 2. Water Filters/Purifiers 3. Portable Toilets 4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses. 5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!) 6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much. 7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots. 8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks. 9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar 10. Rice - Beans - Wheat 11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,) 12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly) 13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking. 14. Mini Heater head (Propane) (Without this item, propane won't heat a room.) 15. Grain Grinder (Non-electric) 16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur. 17. Survival Guide Book. 18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.) 19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc. 20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry) 21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene) 22. Vitamins 23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item) 24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products. 25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms) 26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil) 27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item) 28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal) 29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many). 30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels 31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months) 32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST) 33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST) 34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit 35. Tuna Fish (in oil) 36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room) 37. First aid kits 38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates) 39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies 40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food) 41. Flour, yeast & salt 42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first 43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators 44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.) 45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts 46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns 47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times) 48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels) 49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc 50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient) 51. Fishing supplies/tools 52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams 53. Duct Tape 54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes 55. Candles 56. Laundry Detergent (liquid) 57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags 58. Garden tools & supplies 59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies 60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc. 61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite) 62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax) 63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel 64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc 65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats 66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered) 67. Board Games, Cards, Dice 68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer 69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets 70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks) 71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water) 72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc. 73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave) 74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels) 75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase 76. Reading glasses 77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers) 78. "Survival-in-a-Can" 79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens 80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog 81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO) 82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky 83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts 84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras) 85. Lumber (all types) 86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from) 87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's 88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc. 89. Lantern Hangers 90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts 91. Teas 92. Coffee 93. Cigarettes 94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,) 95. Paraffin wax 96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc. 97. Chewing gum/candies 98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing) 99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs 100. Goats/chickens From a Sarajevo War Survivor: Experiencing horrible things that can happen in a war - death of parents and friends, hunger and malnutrition, endless freezing cold, fear, sniper attacks. 1. Stockpiling helps. but you never no how long trouble will last, so locate near renewable food sources. 2. Living near a well with a manual pump is like being in Eden. 3. After awhile, even gold can lose its luster. But there is no luxury in war quite like toilet paper. Its surplus value is greater than gold's. 4. If you had to go without one utility, lose electricity - it's the easiest to do without (unless you're in a very nice climate with no need for heat.) 5. Canned foods are awesome, especially if their contents are tasty without heating. One of the best things to stockpile is canned gravy - it makes a lot of the dry unappetizing things you find to eat in war somewhat edible. Only needs enough heat to "warm", not to cook. It's cheap too, especially if you buy it in bulk. 6. Bring some books - escapist ones like romance or mysteries become more valuable as the war continues. Sure, it's great to have a lot of survival guides, but you'll figure most of that out on your own anyway - trust me, you'll have a lot of time on your hands. 7. The feeling that you're human can fade pretty fast. I can't tell you how many people I knew who would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of toothpaste, rouge, soap or cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else. 8. Slow burning candles and matches, matches, matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffontherock Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 better to be prepared a year early than a day too late!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 A good 3 minutes watch..... http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=11313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 better to be prepared a year early than a day too late!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What gun are you getting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheels Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Indeed, the ubiquitous AK47. The most reliable and idiot proof firearm in the world. A true survialists weapon. On deployment, it was indeed the simpler things in life that helped make things that little bit more endurable. A good quality toilet roll being one of them. And boiled sweets. While gold maybe "valuable" in todays "stable" environment, but in a "doomsday" scenario it will indeed lose value very quickly. You can't eat it, drink it, make anything useful out of it, etc, etc. Food, fresh water, bullets and medicines will be the only thing of value in that situation. OH and oil/petrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Indeed, the ubiquitous AK47. The most reliable and idiot proof firearm in the world. A true survialists weapon. On deployment, it was indeed the simpler things in life that helped make things that little bit more endurable. A good quality toilet roll being one of them. And boiled sweets. While gold maybe "valuable" in todays "stable" environment, but in a "doomsday" scenario it will indeed lose value very quickly. You can't eat it, drink it, make anything useful out of it, etc, etc. Food, fresh water, bullets and medicines will be the only thing of value in that situation. OH and oil/petrol. I can only outline the info, I can't make you understand that what you're saying makes little or no sense at all. Some people just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I think at least 5 people in this thread should move to the USA....er please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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