Cronky Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I thought someone would have started a thread on this by now - so here goes. Did the Prime Minister do the right thing by not signing up to the new EU Treaty? Here's a comment from the Germans: Der Speigel http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,802933,00.html The questions for Britain, however, are equally difficult. What exactly is the country's role in the EU? British historian Timothy Garton Ash, a critic of the euro-skeptic course followed by the Cameron administration, said recently in an interview with SPIEGEL: "If the euro zone is saved, there will be a fiscal union, which means a political union of the euro countries.... Then, in the next two, three or four years, we in Great Britain will face the final question: in or out?" If the British political class does not undergo a fundamental transformation, there is only one possible answer. Out. Britain in? Or Britain out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I thought someone would have started a thread on this by now - so here goes. They did: http://www.manxforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/49919-camerons-veto/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emoboi Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 YES Bring it On Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 'Britain out of Europe' would be the silliest thing since the 'Ministry of silly walks'. It would be the silliest walk of all time. As much a pain in the arse it is, £12Bn admin and wasted money a year, that does not outweigh 40% of GDP. And if you are anti-EU, fine, but please before you vote to pull us all out, let us all know first how you intend to make up the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Switzerland gets along fine and isn't a member, instead there are many agreements with the EU re: trade, rights for EU citizens to work in Switzerland etc. So were the UK leave it would not be gloom and doom. Wouldn't be a bed of roses either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Switzerland gets along fine and isn't a member, instead there are many agreements with the EU re: trade, rights for EU citizens to work in Switzerland etc. So were the UK leave it would not be gloom and doom. Wouldn't be a bed of roses either. The Economist addressed this issue a couple of days ago. http://www.economist...ritain-and-eu-0 Nor do I think we would be granted the sort of Swiss deal that British Tories yearn for. Switzerland is allowed access to the single market for relatively low cost because it is small. Because Switzerland is small, its absence from the single market table does not fundamentally alter the nature of that market. A walk-out by Britain, the largest free-market minded power in Europe, would change the nature of the single market fundamentally.I also think that Switzerland's deal with the EU is not as good as British Eurosceptics think. It is built around accepting large chunks of EU regulation without any say in order to protect Swiss bank secrecy. Oh yes, the banks. The City of London is very important, and the EU has some bad ideas for regulating it. But I find it hard to cheer the idea that Mr Cameron took an extraordinarily big decision last night about our relations with Europe because he was so convinced he could not win arguments in Brussels about those regulations. A final thought. If we do end up leaving the EU for the sake of the City of London (a big if) it would be ironic if some of those same banks and hedge funds then turned around and announced they were leaving Britain anyway because euro-zone rules made it impossible to work in London, and so they were off to a combination of Paris, Frankfurt, Zug and Singapore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Curious comment from the Germans: Cameron Insists EU Membership 'Vital' to Britain http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,803278,00.html German mass circulation Bild, a veteran of many tabloid spats between Germany and Britain, weighed in on Saturday with the headline "Bye Bye, England. Europe will go on without you." In a tongue-in-cheek commentary, Bild wrote: "Dear British, Europe without you is like fish without chips, like London without driving on the left, like beer without foam. But you must decide now. Do you really want to be a lonely island and do everything differently? If yes, be honest -- and get out of the EU altogether." I think their journalist has cut to the chase with this comment. They would actually like us in the EU - but we would have to conform and be more like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 we ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 we ? 'We' as in the UK by virtue of it's full relationship with the EU - and the Crown Dependencies by virtue of regulation and legislation arising from their Protocol 3 relationship with the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric76 Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 From http://www.canada.co...6784/story.html: French President Nicolas Sarkozy admitted on Monday that the European Union was now a two-speed alliance but insisted that Britain would not be forced out of the bloc's single market. ... "We did everything, the chancellor and I, to allow the British to take part in the agreement. But there are now clearly two Europes," Sarkozy said in an interview with the French daily Le Monde. "One wants more solidarity between its members and more regulation. The other is attached only to the logic of the single market," he said. But, asked whether Britain, which has refused to join the single currency and opposed last week's fiscal pact, could still remain inside the EU single market, Sarkozy said: "We need Great Britain." "We'd be greatly impoverished if we allowed its departure which, luckily, is not on the agenda," he insisted. I must admit that there is a good deal about the situation I don't understand, but it is my gut feeling that it is a great mistake to cede sovereignty over one's own country, especially the currency, to a group of other countries who do not necessarily have your interests at heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I must admit that there is a good deal about the situation I don't understand, but it is my gut feeling that it is a great mistake to cede sovereignty over one's own country, especially the currency, to a group of other countries who do not necessarily have your interests at heart. +1 Also, it is not a 2 speed Europe, it is a 27 speed Europe, and most of those are in reverse, hense the problem. ETA - Anti Euro feeling is not only a uk thing http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Analysis-Merkel-post-summit-reuters_molt-2487561942.html?x=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 It looks like Airstrip One really is being incorporated into Oceania and is detaching itself from Eurasia then.....while the Ministry of Peace are focused on Iran, the Ministry of Truth are keeping us ill-informed of what's really going on as usual, the Ministry of Love are readying us for social unrest and the Ministry of Plenty are passing bills to outlaw home-grown food..... ...what year is it again?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Cracks-Emerge-In-European-skynews-3836700978.html?x=0 More cracks appearing in Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I don't think so. The proposal is to create a new treaty they can all sign up to so they're all making their pitch towards it. Of course, nationalism doesn't come into it. The very idea! This is the EU after all.... The likes of the Czech Republic and Hungary are not keen on their corporation tax rates being set by Angela Merkel i.e. unification of tax rates was a German proposal for treaty inclusion. Well, quelle surprise! They've still got a long way to go and it will probably end up being the usual fudge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Why do politicians and reporters use the term 'two-speed' - and which one is faster? Isn't it actually a twin-track EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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