Barrie Stevens Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 This is nothing to do with free speech. It is about public order. It is the way you do it and the intent. Churchill was from a different era and may have written something way out by the standard of today. There are laws about saying something calculated to inflame a situation in terms of race and or religion. If you read out in public comments written by a man of the imperialist generation and who had strong views, and do it in such a way that certain people might well take offence, and you are fully aware of this, then you are potentially committing a public order offence. A nice policeman comes along and cautions you to desist and you cry "Free speech. Churchill said this" etc ..And then carry on with it you are going to be taken away. I have seen it done in Tesco's someone shouting the odds but they accepted the "move on Sir!" caution and so were not nicked. "They don't like it up 'em you know!"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Winston Churchill was a historian and what he said was and remains completely factual. I don't see what his generation or what imperialism has to do with anything. The truth is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 This is nothing to do with free speech. It is about public order. It is the way you do it and the intent. Churchill was from a different era and may have written something way out by the standard of today. There are laws about saying something calculated to inflame a situation in terms of race and or religion. If you read out in public comments written by a man of the imperialist generation and who had strong views, and do it in such a way that certain people might well take offence, and you are fully aware of this, then you are potentially committing a public order offence. A nice policeman comes along and cautions you to desist and you cry "Free speech. Churchill said this" etc ..And then carry on with it you are going to be taken away. I have seen it done in Tesco's someone shouting the odds but they accepted the "move on Sir!" caution and so were not nicked. "They don't like it up 'em you know!"... You say it has nothing to do with "Free Speech"? If this man had proclaimed in the "same location" that the Police deserve a big pay rise, and we should trust our governments, I wonder if he would have been asked to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 No he would not have been asked to move on unless he wrapped police pay with something likely to or calculated to cause a public order offence. Over here if you say something racially or religiously provocative in a multicultural mixed race environment in such way or manner that it might cause an inflamed situation then you can be arrested. If you are lucky you will spoken to... I do not know what Churchill said. I recall doing extracts from that book in the mid 1960s at school. I suspect Churchill wrote something that today would cause a breach of the peace and be a public order offence if read out loud in mixed ethnic company. In other words "Do a Jeremy Clarkson" in the High Street and you may get nicked....If you are brazen.. Nothing to do with free speech. Everything to do with what you intended to bring about or that you were wilfully on the cusp of stirring it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 No he would not have been asked to move on unless he wrapped police pay with something likely to or calculated to cause a public order offence. Over here if you say something racially or religiously provocative in a multicultural mixed race environment in such way or manner that it might cause an inflamed situation then you can be arrested. If you are lucky you will spoken to... I do not know what Churchill said. I recall doing extracts from that book in the mid 1960s at school. I suspect Churchill wrote something that today would cause a breach of the peace and be a public order offence if read out loud in mixed ethnic company. In other words "Do a Jeremy Clarkson" in the High Street and you may get nicked....If you are brazen.. Nothing to do with free speech. Everything to do with what you intended to bring about or that you were wilfully on the cusp of stirring it! There is no point in having "Free Speech" if it excludes something that is offensive. Most countries will allow you to say what lovely weather we've been having, the problems start when you offend some group, if you say you can't offend one particular group, there is another smaller group you might offend, The Government. By banning offensive speech, you can now apply that to Politicians who must not be criticized as they are elected and paid to represent the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Winston Churchill was a historian and what he said was and remains completely factual. I don't see what his generation or what imperialism has to do with anything. The truth is the truth. You've obviously never read his 'historical' works. I have read his historical works and highly recommend them to anyone interested in a proper history, as opposed to the postmodern revisionist garbage being spewed on the likes of JSTOR by half-witted marxist academics. In fact, I would highly recommend to anyone interested in the truth in the humanities stick to texts written prior to 1970. Science and technology are another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 There is no point in having "Free Speech" if it excludes something that is offensive. Bingo. 'If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're in favor of freedom of speech, that means you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise.' Noam Chomsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I'm surprised the BBC put this report out as the BBC receives money from the EU, but credit where credit is due. Membership of the EU has not given the UK any "insider advantages" in trade with other European countries, social policy think tank Civitas says. In a study it finds "no discernible impact on UK exports of goods to other member countries" from membership of the EU or its single market. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27284489 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Bump.... If anyone's really interested in this subject, it's worth checking this out. There'll be knock-on efects for the Island whatever happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Winston Churchill was a historian and what he said was and remains completely factual. I don't see what his generation or what imperialism has to do with anything. The truth is the truth. You've obviously never read his 'historical' works. I have read his historical works and highly recommend them to anyone interested in a proper history, as opposed to the postmodern revisionist garbage being spewed on the likes of JSTOR by half-witted marxist academics. In fact, I would highly recommend to anyone interested in the truth in the humanities stick to texts written prior to 1970. Science and technology are another matter. Do you think his rather soft defence of his father Randolph was reasonable in the circumstances that it was written? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 "UK Treasury opposes EU call for 'yet more money" "The UK Treasury has said the European Commission should not be asking for "yet more money" from EU member states.The commission has published proposals to increase the 2014 contributions from members by 2.16 billion euros (£1.76bn) to cover increased costs for growth and jobs schemes, and help for Ukraine." Its very expensive this Free Market. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27616021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2680183/Is-EU-just-German-racket-Europe-Nearly-25-years-ago-Tory-minister-told-DOMINIC-LAWSON-lost-job-firestorm-followed-right-along.html Interesting article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Very interesting. If his thoughts had been acknowledged and supported - and Enoch Powell's - we would be a far better nation (with a far better future), than we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2680183/Is-EU-just-German-racket-Europe-Nearly-25-years-ago-Tory-minister-told-DOMINIC-LAWSON-lost-job-firestorm-followed-right-along.html Interesting article. Yes very interesting, here is some background information about Hitler's plan for Europe. The New Order (German: Neuordnung) or the New Order of Europe (German: Neuordnung Europas) was the political order which Nazi Germany wanted to impose on the conquered areas under its dominion. The establishment of the New Order was already begun long before the start of World War II, but was publicly proclaimed by Adolf Hitler in 1941: "The year 1941 will be, I am convinced, the historical year of a great European New Order." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_%28Nazism%29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Tory MP Mark Reckless joins UKIP. "The Rochester and Strood MP told the UKIP conference, in Doncaster, that he has resigned as an MP, triggering a by-election in the constituency. Delegates started to spontaneously chant "UKIP, UKIP" when Mr Reckless announced his decision to defect, which he said was not easy. The move comes just weeks after Clacton MP Douglas Carswell defected from the Conservatives to join UKIP." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29394697 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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