pongo Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 The EU? It's a total madhouse run on taxpayers' money. All we needed was a free trade zone and what we got was the bureaucracy from hell.Free trade means defining what is meant by free trade. It depends upon setting agreed standards such that regions genuinely can fairly trade freely according to common standards. As you will know from learning the history of these islands at school, the definition of free trade has been a deeply difficult political issue for the past few centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Free trade does not work, there should be a maximum 20% import duty for each country, thats how you raise taxes. Toilet Taxes would be flushed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Free trade does not work, there should be a maximum 20% import duty for each country, thats how you raise taxes.That's a rather 18th century perspective. Good to see where you are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Free trade does not work, there should be a maximum 20% import duty for each country, thats how you raise taxes. That's a rather 18th century perspective. Good to see where you are coming from. Free Trade goes back to John Dee 1527 - 1608 as a way of starting and controlling the Brytish Empire. It is to be despised for the misery it has caused, Greece is one recent example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Free trade does not work, there should be a maximum 20% import duty for each country, thats how you raise taxes. That's a rather 18th century perspective. Good to see where you are coming from. Free Trade goes back to John Dee 1527 - 1608 as a way of starting and controlling the British Empire. It is to be despised for the misery it has caused, Greece is one recent example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Greece is one recent example. I call Bull Shit on this one, total grade-A Bull Shit. Greece's problems are caused by their own politicians, just like the IOM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Greece is one recent example. I call Bull Shit on this one, total grade-A Bull Shit. Greece's problems are caused by their own politicians, just like the IOM's. Politicians did stitch up the Greek people with the help of Bankers, by hiding there massive debts using currency swaps, so they could join the EURO, but even with out that, what does Greece make to export? Not a lot is the answer, but as they import more than they export, they would have some Tax money from the 20% import duties. Its a fact of economics, Imports bad Exports good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 The EU? It's a total madhouse run on taxpayers' money. All we needed was a free trade zone and what we got was the bureaucracy from hell.Free trade means defining what is meant by free trade. It depends upon setting agreed standards such that regions genuinely can fairly trade freely according to common standards. As you will know from learning the history of these islands at school, the definition of free trade has been a deeply difficult political issue for the past few centuries. So that means we can't buy anything from China then? Oh wait. Virtually everything we use comes from China. You're talking socialist idealism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 The EU brought prosperity and stability to Greece even including the gradual thawing of regional tensions. Remember that the post WW2 history of Greece is civil war and Fascist dictatorship. The sooner the better, we start thinking about regions instead of countries. But yes better rules regarding banking regulation and the valuation of debt are essential. Also rules to discourage the hoarding of money and which encourage investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Greece is one recent example. I call Bull Shit on this one, total grade-A Bull Shit. Greece's problems are caused by their own politicians, just like the IOM's. Greece's problems are caused by Greeks. Fair enough. But having them tied into a currency that they can't devalue and the taxpayers of the other countries bailing them out does not seem like a good plan for a successful future. Ask savers in Cyprus what they think about it all too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Greece's problems are caused by Greeks. Fair enough. But having them tied into a currency that they can't devalue and the taxpayers of the other countries bailing them out does not seem like a good plan for a successful future. Ask savers in Cyprus what they think about it all too. You don't devalue to become competitive. You have quality management and politicians, a well-trained and educated workforce. Greece's problems have been caused by the Greeks and the Greeks alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 The EU brought prosperity and stability to Greece even including the gradual thawing of regional tensions. Remember that the post WW2 history of Greece is civil war and Fascist dictatorship. The sooner the better, we start thinking about regions instead of countries. But yes better rules regarding banking regulation and the valuation of debt are essential. Also rules to discourage the hoarding of money and which encourage investment. I agree with banking regulation, by replacing "Fractional Reserve Banking" with a system that circulates money, but neither the ECB, EU or the City of London will do that. As for stability in the EU, search for the name Gladio and the extent of its activities during the Cold War era, and its relationship to right-wing terrorist attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 So that means we can't buy anything from China then? Oh wait. Virtually everything we use comes from China. You're talking socialist idealism.?? Neither Britain nor the EU has free trade with China. What are you saying ? Anyhow - it's 180° away from a socialist perspective. For example we do not want a free trade in state produced goods or services. That's the sort of thing which a fair free trade level playing field is all about defining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Greece's problems are caused by Greeks. Fair enough. But having them tied into a currency that they can't devalue and the taxpayers of the other countries bailing them out does not seem like a good plan for a successful future. Ask savers in Cyprus what they think about it all too. You don't devalue to become competitive. You have quality management and politicians, a well-trained and educated workforce. Greece's problems have been caused by the Greeks and the Greeks alone. In Greece? Dream on. This is my whole point. They should be allowed to go on their merry devaluing way and not be tied into what was supposed to be a hard currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Seeker Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I should have added the term "Most-Favored-Nation Status" which China has with the USA, also comes from John Dee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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