manshimajin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Basically, as it ever was, if you have considerable assets to invest do not put them in one basket or in one country. After everything has hit the wall we still need some form of money management and tranfer system and some form of investing money in growth sectors. You can't invest a block of land or a bar of gold in, say, a biotech company. It has to be converted into something which generates cashflow to allow the business to develop. And whilst the Weimar Republic reverted to a barter system for day to day purchases this did not endure. The need for some form of credible and trustworthy banking system is a challenge that has to be met if we are going to continue to have employment. On the side, when I was in Zurich recently I had to laugh when I discovered that their finance centre had been built on the site of the pig market. Ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 .......... On the side, when I was in Zurich recently I had to laugh when I discovered that their finance centre had been built on the site of the pig market. Ironic. Trotting through the pig market must have been a swine of a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Basically, as it ever was, if you have considerable assets to invest do not put them in one basket or in one country. After everything has hit the wall we still need some form of money management and tranfer system and some form of investing money in growth sectors. You can't invest a block of land or a bar of gold in, say, a biotech company. It has to be converted into something which generates cashflow to allow the business to develop. And whilst the Weimar Republic reverted to a barter system for day to day purchases this did not endure. The need for some form of credible and trustworthy banking system is a challenge that has to be met if we are going to continue to have employment. On the side, when I was in Zurich recently I had to laugh when I discovered that their finance centre had been built on the site of the pig market. Ironic. True. However the issue is that the idiots (or very clever people in my book) who built, abused and will ultimately destroy this system will be the ones tasked with devising and building another. It's my opinion that they already have an alternative system waiting in the wings, eventually a completely digital-based system, with the IMF's Special Drawing Rights as the world's reserve currency, taking over from the dollar. It will happen in stages but from the way things have been dismantled over the past decade you can see the pattern emerging, with cash being phased out and the IMF taking a leading role as the world's bank. Until we get there who knows how it will all play out, although I think they'll keep kicking the can a bit further down the road yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Bobster Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 from the way things have been dismantled over the past decade you can see the pattern emerging Would this be more correctly described as apophenia or pareidolia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 from the way things have been dismantled over the past decade you can see the pattern emerging Would this be more correctly described as apophenia or pareidolia? Whatever you'd like it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Lxxx, I would say that the 'clever people' are an example of the difference between being 'smart' and being 'wise'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Lxxx, I would say that the 'clever people' are an example of the difference between being 'smart' and being 'wise'. All it shows is that some people are better at using Wikipedia than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 'Smart' people got us to where we are now - 'wise' people are needed to get us out of where we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Throughout Europe as a whole, I still believe there is sufficient political: will; motivation; and overall commonsense to drive through a solution. Few; other than those taking financial advantage of the chaos; will benefit if the system fails, and eventually them neither. Not to say that there won't be a few casualties along the path. I think a great deal of the current panic comes from people with money, who themselves don't undertstand economics, don't understand the role and impact of politics within it, and that there is currently no alternative but for the system to survive. Regardless perhaps of the past and possible future collapse of a few banks, things are already stabilising. If we went by some of the panic logic in this and other threads, financial armageddon would have occurred long before now. Hopefully though this time lessons will be learned, and actions (regulatory/prosecutions) taken for it not to happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Throughout Europe as a whole, I still believe there is sufficient political: will; motivation; and overall commonsense to drive through a solution. Few; other than those taking financial advantage of the chaos; will benefit if the system fails, and eventually them neither. Not to say that there won't be a few casualties along the path. I think a great deal of the current panic comes from people with money, who themselves don't undertstand economics, don't understand the role and impact of politics within it, and that there is currently no alternative but for the system to survive. Regardless perhaps of the past and possible future collapse of a few banks, things are already stabilising. If we went by some of the panic logic in this and other threads, financial armageddon would have occurred long before now. Hopefully though this time lessons will be learned, and actions (regulatory/prosecutions) taken for it not to happen again. I admire your optimism. I'd also like to know where you are basing your assumption that 'things are already stabilising.' If you are taking the lack of front page headlines and features on the News At Ten as your basis for that statement then you're massively misinformed. Scratch under the surface and do some research and you'll see that nothing has changed, save the fact that the media has been told to go and focus on other areas so as not to alarm the public, or the 'people with money' as you put it. I don't see any panic on these threads, just lots of people who either don't know much about the current situation and want to learn more and potentially safeguard themselves, and also people who do the research and have a genuine interest in what's going on and want to share some of the knowledge they have accumulated. People will learn more on threads like this than by watching the news or by reading the newspapers. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 We had banking collapses following the credit crunch, as has already been stated. We may see further collapses as a result of the Euro Zone debt crisis. On the whole, consumer deposits were protected in the aftermath of the credit crunch, with the locally noteworthy exception of KSF. I believe that governments will this time around focus on protecting consumer deposits, rather than bailing out bankrupt institutions as a whole. I think it is mistaken to perceive the problems as global - the Pacific (except Japan), Latin America, much of Asia are not in recession or headed for recession, and in my opinion. North America is showing signs of recovery. Some of the institutions mentioned as being at risk (like HSBC) do much of their business in Asia and Pacific regions, and I think it is unduly apocalyptic to see them in the same way as mainly European banks, which is where I perceive mist of the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 We had banking collapses following the credit crunch, as has already been stated. We may see further collapses as a result of the Euro Zone debt crisis. On the whole, consumer deposits were protected in the aftermath of the credit crunch, with the locally noteworthy exception of KSF. I believe that governments will this time around focus on protecting consumer deposits, rather than bailing out bankrupt institutions as a whole. I think it is mistaken to perceive the problems as global - the Pacific (except Japan), Latin America, much of Asia are not in recession or headed for recession, and in my opinion. North America is showing signs of recovery. Some of the institutions mentioned as being at risk (like HSBC) do much of their business in Asia and Pacific regions, and I think it is unduly apocalyptic to see them in the same way as mainly European banks, which is where I perceive mist of the risk. Good points, well made. However I don't live in the pacific region, latin america nor asia therefore I am concerned with the capacity of my government to be able to safely negotiate it's way out of the mess that the western economies are presently in. The UK has approximately 1000% debt to GDP, higher than any other country, and as the Isle of Man is intrinsically linked to the UK on a number of levels (and has financial problems now of it's own) then my immediate concern is not how Vietnam or Peru is shaping up, but how solvent is my bank and how much clout have my elected officials got to look after my welfare in the face of a financial crisis should it arise. (We all know the answer to that one). N.B. North America is so far from showing signs of recovery it is laughable. But if you like to read and believe the statistics that get bandied about by the mainstream then who am I to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitantDogOwner Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Have you noticed that anyone that disagrees or has a differing opinion to Lexx, must read the Daily Mail and have Fox News injected directly into their brain (according to him anyway)? Claiming to be the only sane person in the asylum doesnt make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Have you noticed that anyone that disagrees or has a differing opinion to Lexx, must read the Daily Mail and have Fox News injected directly into their brain (according to him anyway)? Claiming to be the only sane person in the asylum doesnt make it so. Absolutely. I am the chosen one. The information I espouse comes directly from the creator himself. Ignore it at your peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Lxxx sovereign debt and bank solvency are particularly related insofar as banks hold sovereign debt or derivatives. I agree that there might well be bank collapses as a result of this. The point about the current crisis being predominantly a European one is relevant - choose banks that do most of their business in the Asia Pacific region. Another sensible option is to choose investment instruments that offer exposure to the markets that have growth potential, rather than the moribund ones. It is too easy to do a lot of dick swinging about how enormous the coming crash will be. A measured view is likely to be better for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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