gazza Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Well id say less then part right missed the rest. Not sure on the UK I guess it will be germany and the UK next, whos left!!!! I did read a well thought artical about why the UK would be last to be downgraded, it was all to do with the uk or more for the fact the city of london. But i guess with them all becoming down greaded is prob a good thing for the ones that are at rock bottem, starts to even out the market where everyones at about the same rate give or take. Then again a lot think this is all planned and is a slow downgrade in the markets to ease the world into a full blown ressesion, little by little you get used to having less and paying more. if It all comes at once we all panic. *Tin foil hat removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 'Controlled demolition' I think is a good phrase to describe what is happening. >Adjusts tin hat< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 One thing I have noticed is that rating agencies seem to be putting the bad news out one or two days after there has been a bit of optimistic news. So this time there was the news that Italy and Spain had been able to auction bonds at lower interest rates than before. Last time it was something positive about the handling of the Greek crisis. I haven't bothered to try and go back beyond that but I recall on previous occasions pointing a similar pattern to my wife when the rating agencies issued a negative statement. "The market has had some good news - time to slip out our news release" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 One thing I have noticed is that rating agencies seem to be putting the bad news out one or two days after there has been a bit of optimistic news. So this time there was the news that Italy and Spain had been able to auction bonds at lower interest rates than before. Last time it was something positive about the handling of the Greek crisis. I haven't bothered to try and go back beyond that but I recall on previous occasions pointing a similar pattern to my wife when the rating agencies issued a negative statement. "The market has had some good news - time to slip out our news release" Very good point. It's all market manipulation, and anyone who thinks the ratings agencies are genuinely independant needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This is something I've thought about too. I'm sure there'll be some top dog somewhere pulling the strings to take advantage of the money go round which means that it creates division and problems for various countries. The main money-men however, are able to swap and exchange their monies at peak rates. Eventually it'll all go pear shaped and the top cheeses will come a cropper, as there's only so much a country can take, unless they're by some tin foil hat chance, that they're aliens or some other weird concoction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This is something I've thought about too. I'm sure there'll be some top dog somewhere pulling the strings to take advantage of the money go round which means that it creates division and problems for various countries. The main money-men however, are able to swap and exchange their monies at peak rates. Or is their partners???? So it would seem in Switzerland http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16472416 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 This is something I've thought about too. I'm sure there'll be some top dog somewhere pulling the strings to take advantage of the money go round which means that it creates division and problems for various countries. The main money-men however, are able to swap and exchange their monies at peak rates. Or is their partners???? So it would seem in Switzerland http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-16472416 Well the real power in the world of high finance eminates from Switzerland and the Bank of International Settlements, who pull all the strings from behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Or is their partners???? So it would seem in Switzerland http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-16472416 What you will probably not have seen is how widespread this sort of action appears to be in Switzerland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 What you will probably not have seen is how widespread this sort of action appears to be in Switzerland. No wonder they located the finance centre in Zurich's old pig market then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 What you will probably not have seen is how widespread this sort of action appears to be in Switzerland. No wonder they located the finance centre in Zurich's old pig market then The swines! It reads 'The Swiss National Bank cleared Mr Hildebrand of any wrongdoing in a report in late December.' How on earth can his wife decide to move $504,000 (£323,024) in August, three weeks before the central bank intervened to cap the Swiss franc without his knowing? No wonder he resigned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 It is now about rebuilding confidence, I think. Yesterday's bond auctions by Spain and Italy were a success, so apart from the Greeks things are improving. It didn't surprise me to see Italy having a result as they're run by the mafia and have a few friends in high places in the US Interesting report by Max and the link here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernieM Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 The other country I can see possibly leaving is Germany. Have you been in the market since 9am? If Germany leaves, the whole house of cards collapses. They are the only ones with any money. I know, and that is exactly why they may leave. Given that the German economy is heavily dependent upon exports it's hardly in Germany's interest to leave; should they do so they would presumably abandon the Euro and reinstate the DM which would then become a very storing currency making German exports more expensive..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 QUOTE Bernie M: Given that the German economy is heavily dependent upon exports it's hardly in Germany's interest to leave; should they do so they would presumably abandon the Euro and reinstate the DM which would then become a very storing currency making German exports more expensive..... But is having a strong currency worse than being in a currency that is in a state of collapse and which they are having to hold up singlehandedly whilst being castigated by the feckless countries they are trying to bring into line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernieM Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 QUOTE Bernie M: Given that the German economy is heavily dependent upon exports it's hardly in Germany's interest to leave; should they do so they would presumably abandon the Euro and reinstate the DM which would then become a very storing currency making German exports more expensive..... But is having a strong currency worse than being in a currency that is in a state of collapse and which they are having to hold up singlehandedly whilst being castigated by the feckless countries they are trying to bring into line? It's probably not a simple yes/no but ultimately it is Germany that will have to pay one way or the other. If Europe/Eurozone breaks up then a strong (reinstated) DM could have a disastrous effect on the German export economy with a predictable reaction from bond markets and Germany will pay for any increased borrowing. Currently German bonds are low risk, low yield but if Europe/Eurozone is to remain intact then Germany as the strongest European economy will have to pay for it and they could be punished for that by the bond market. However, they are not paying to keep the zone intact single handedly - France is the second largest contributor although that may now be somewhat problematic given the recent downgrade by S&P. Bear in mind though that their downgrade is only to the same rating as the US so is it that important? It almost seems like a lose-lose for Germany given these albeit hypothetical scenarios so rather than Germany leave the Eurozone perhaps the best solution would be for the "feckless countries" to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 QUOTE Bernie M: Given that the German economy is heavily dependent upon exports it's hardly in Germany's interest to leave; should they do so they would presumably abandon the Euro and reinstate the DM which would then become a very storing currency making German exports more expensive..... But is having a strong currency worse than being in a currency that is in a state of collapse and which they are having to hold up singlehandedly whilst being castigated by the feckless countries they are trying to bring into line? It's probably not a simple yes/no but ultimately it is Germany that will have to pay one way or the other. If Europe/Eurozone breaks up then a strong (reinstated) DM could have a disastrous effect on the German export economy with a predictable reaction from bond markets and Germany will pay for any increased borrowing. Currently German bonds are low risk, low yield but if Europe/Eurozone is to remain intact then Germany as the strongest European economy will have to pay for it and they could be punished for that by the bond market. However, they are not paying to keep the zone intact single handedly - France is the second largest contributor although that may now be somewhat problematic given the recent downgrade by S&P. Bear in mind though that their downgrade is only to the same rating as the US so is it that important? It almost seems like a lose-lose for Germany given these albeit hypothetical scenarios so rather than Germany leave the Eurozone perhaps the best solution would be for the "feckless countries" to leave. I think the following episode of The Keiser Report answer a few of your points about Germany. An excellent episode this week summing up the reasoning behind the continuous negative interest rates. . http://rt.com/progra...246-max-keiser/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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