Hunting Ban Free Vote In The Commons

[Ruger]

I'm surprised Blair and his town chums didn’t try to ban the Fox from hunting rabbits, as it's only done in the same 'unspeakable' manner as the hound hunts the fox!.

 

Blair simply saw an opportunity to win votes from the gullible public majority. This was proven by the fact he happily admitted it was a mistake much later on when he had nothing left to loose – prize cock. Good on Cameron, he’s clearly not afraid to put quite a few backs up over this.

 

I to have no interest in fox hunting, but in light of this ridiculous ban you have to ask yourself, what the hell’s next?!.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Well what others forms of hunting are there? Those would be a good place to start when thinking of further bans.

[ballaughbiker]

As an animal lover I initially find the thought of fox hunting very distasteful. The idiots in their red jackets and even redder noses do themselves no favours although the extreme element of animal rights activists have done considerably worse deeds. Despite these thoughts; I think it should have never been made illegal. Now it is, perhaps things should now be left as they are. There's enough perceived class divide without dragging all this up again.

 

There are many forms of hunting depending on your definition yet only hunting with dogs is illegal. Why?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

An animal lover? I must ask in what sense if you are not completely opposed to all forms of hunting.

 

Animal rights activists have done very bad things on occasions (though most of what they do is acceptable to me) but what relevance is this??? What bearing does it have if animal rights activists set off a nuclear weapon or stabbed loads of people when considering what is right or wrong about hunting?

 

Yes, there is a class divide. Why not bring it up?

[Chinahand]

Cats bring huge suffering to millions of birds every year. Anyone who is concerned about reducing the human impact on animal suffering should be deeply concerned about the cruelty brought to every domestic garden by the ownership of cats.

 

Now why are people so concerned about the welfare of a few thousand foxes and indifferent to the suffering of millions of birds - because this debate is mainly about politics and not reducing animal suffering, where there are multiple more pressing priorities.

 

I don't understand the idea that its fine to kill foxes as long as its done by dower people who don't enjoy what they are doing. But in my view about the biggest issue in fox hunting is about the image that it is done by rich people dressed in red coats.

 

A fox is an animal that has death red in tooth and claw bred into it for ions, and I'd really like to know the average time to death of a fox caught by a pack compared to a fox shot by a hunter. Hunters can regularly wound leaving a slow cruel death, but if a pack gets hold of a fox its dead.

 

For me there are so many other priorities that I find the obsession with fox hunting a big distraction - it is genuinely debatable how much more humane the different versions of control are. It's a class based political argument, with very little to do with genuinely reducing suffering.

 

But cats, and kosher/halal meat - well they are just cruel, but we put up with them because they are an accepted part of life and religion.

 

[wheels]

Sorry but I think that video needs a warning

[ballaughbiker]

An entirely predictable response from LDV. If only I had enough time to and a desire to troll (I have neither) this could go on for pages. I should know better but

 

How do you know I'm not opposed to all forms of hunting? I don't recall saying either way.

 

The relevence of AR should be clear as most antis argue against fox hunting on AR grounds. Is you anti argument on some other ground then? AR activists usually justify their occasional extreme acts by reference to the wronged animal as though 2 wrongs make a right.

 

Yes, there is a class divide. Why not bring it up

I think I did, didn't I?

[Albert Tatlock]

Sorry but I think that video needs a warning

And anything with Adam Sandler in it.

[Ruger]

An animal lover? I must ask in what sense if you are not completely opposed to all forms of hunting.

 

Animal rights activists have done very bad things on occasions (though most of what they do is acceptable to me) but what relevance is this??? What bearing does it have if animal rights activists set off a nuclear weapon or stabbed loads of people when considering what is right or wrong about hunting?

 

Yes, there is a class divide. Why not bring it up?

 

What a buffoon. The hunting Ban impacted as much on average Joe and his one or two dogs as it did the rich toffs.

 

Are you a vegetarian LDV if not then stop and think what a hypocrite you sound when you say your apposed to all forms of hunting. Do you think meat grows on trees or something?. Or are you an ignorant vegetarian that likes to think no rabbits, pigeons, etc had to be "hunted" in order to protect your salad while it was still growing in the field?. What about the millions of rats and mice that are poisoned, shot, and hunted with dogs (yes that’s right, still legal if its not a 'cute' fox), to protect and keep clean (keep the shit and piss off it) the stored grain that goes into your bread and breakfast cereals?.

 

"Completely apposed to all forms of hunting", you haven’t got a clue have you?. Just another ill-informed town dweller that likes to shout their mouth of about something they know nothing about, a bit like Blair except that tosser thought he would pass laws on something he knew nothing about.

[Endovelicus]

Fortunately, there's no ban on hunting red herrings!

 

You don't have to be a vegetarian to oppose the louts who go hunting for fun.

Hunting for food, or even 'hunting' to protect foodstuffs is nothing like the same. And if you're next going to tell us about foxes killing chickens etc, the fact is that I think most farmers would reach for a shotgun rather than call out the local hunt!

I was also disappointed with Chinahand's post - cats are semi-domesticated creatures - they are not, as far as I know, capable of the rational thought that is supposed to separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

[Butters]

Well what others forms of hunting are there? Those would be a good place to start when thinking of further bans.

 

LDV, you really show your urban colours if you are honestly ignorant of hunting practices. Are you also one of those self-righteous hipocrites who gleefully stuff their faces with fecal contaminated McD's but howl with indignation at those who choose to kill & eat their own game meat?

 

Frankly, the antis I have crossed swords with are, by and large, totally whit-less as to hunting practices, choosing to believe the twisted propaganda fed to them via the anti hunting lobby. One only has to look at the typical hunt sab to realise that not only have they never set foot in the countryside before, but are also work-shy, idle, new age hippies with nothing better to occupy their time.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

An entirely predictable response from LDV. If only I had enough time to and a desire to troll (I have neither) this could go on for pages. I should know better but… How do you know I'm not opposed to all forms of hunting? I don't recall saying either way.

Doubt it would. You said you were an animal lover yet disagree with it being made illegal.

You are someone who believes that laws should be established to curb immoral behaviour, so why is this situation different?

 

Maybe you just need to explain more.

 

The relevence of AR should be clear as most antis argue against fox hunting on AR grounds. Is you anti argument on some other ground then?

No, it’s not. It is the same. But you still haven’t addressed why you bring up the actions of Animal Rights people. What’s the connection?

 

AR activists usually justify their occasional extreme acts by reference to the wronged animal as though 2 wrongs make a right.

Is this the connection? It is still an independent and separate issue to whether hunting should be banned or not.

But you are incorrect think that some ‘extreme’ acts are wrong. Some are very justified.

For instance, if you have a man who undertakes medical testing on chimpanzees or dogs and has been told to stop but continues, then I would support ANY means to make him desist. Different circumstances warrant different action.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Are you a vegetarian LDV if not then stop and think what a hypocrite you sound when you say your apposed to all forms of hunting. Do you think meat grows on trees or something?.

I don’t eat meat.

 

Or are you an ignorant vegetarian that likes to think no rabbits, pigeons, etc had to be "hunted" in order to protect your salad while it was still growing in the field?. What about the millions of rats and mice that are poisoned, shot, and hunted with dogs (yes that’s right, still legal if its not a 'cute' fox), to protect and keep clean (keep the shit and piss off it) the stored grain that goes into your bread and breakfast cereals?.

Not a hypocrite in the least. Because I am aware of the immoral behaviour surrounding food use. That’s why I want to make my position less immoral. That means going from eating meat to stopping eating meat, to then looking to stop dairy food consumption and looking to be vegan.

I am fully aware of the immorality of my position in many respects to where animals are used as a resource. I am aware and wish to change that. It is simply a matters of changing the worse aspects of my behaviour and then continuing. Hunting is a more serious example of this immorality towards animals. I am not being a hypocrite in pointing that out,

I think as a society we need to have a greater respect for them.

 

I object to the shooting of animals to protect our food use. If that means less food around then that’s our problem. A problem that we have caused and to which our behaviours and lifestyle should be changed.

And I think you are confusing matters. This is made clear by your use of quotation marks for ‘hunted’.

An animal that is poisoned is not hunted. (Not to say that is poisoning is moral, more often it is not). But it is quite difference from the perverse pleasure that someone takes from taking a gun to an animal or the pleasure from a fox hunt.

 

"Completely apposed to all forms of hunting", you haven’t got a clue have you?. Just another ill-informed town dweller that likes to shout their mouth of about something they know nothing about, a bit like Blair except that tosser thought he would pass laws on something he knew nothing about.

I have not come across a good argument for maintaining fox hunting nor for hunting for pleasure.

[Chinahand]

I was also disappointed with Chinahand's post - cats are semi-domesticated creatures - they are not, as far as I know, capable of the rational thought that is supposed to separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

Endovelicus, I'm a little confused what you are disappointed about - my issue is that if you were concerned about animal welfare then you would be unhappy with people artificially introducing a predator into domestic gardens - with all the animal welfare consequences of doing that - cats are hugely damaging to natural environments and their toll on bird populations is very significant. They are cruel animals and often cause their prey to suffer and the only reason they exist in the numbers they do is down to us. Our actions in maintaining the cat population directly result in serious animal welfare issues - that isn't the fault of the cat, it is our fault for introducing them into our environment.

 

Cats are treated like vermin on many an Isle for the death toll they do - maybe the suffering of a rare sea bird is seen as being so much more important than a robin's, but if a dog killed as often as cats do it would be put down or controlled, with cats its just assumed to be natural - their behaviour may be, but their numbers are entirely artificial and down to us - and so we must bear responsibility for what they do.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I think Chinahand is right. I think there are so many aspects to life and to our behaviour where we are unaware or unconcerned about the impact it has on other animals. I would not have much of it until Chinahand mentioned that about cats.

But once these things are identified and people care then behaviour changes.

Although I think it cowardly and rather stupid that many make the argument that because one thing is accepted it makes another form of behaviour acceptable. Rather it should be seen that where hypocrisy exists, it should be dealt with by stopping the bad behaviour.