manxawol Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16923527 anyone like to chip in for his airfare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Isn't this the problem of a country that is "bound by the rule of law" in dealing with people who are not? There may be all sorts of things you would 'like' to do with them but you have to decide whether or not you live by the core principles of your society. IMO the UKG is right to continue down the road of getting this sorted through legitimate channels, not by creating a 'martyr' out of someone who does not in any way warrant that status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxawol Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Jordan have said that he won't be harmed at all, he has been convicted in Jordan. why should his rights be placed above the innocent law abiding citizens of this country. he says he doesn't want to be here, won't get a uk passport and is a Jordanian citizen, it would just be sending him back to his own country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 problem is that the European Court of Human Rights has never said UK cannot deport him to Jordan 1. The Court approved the agreement between UK and Jordan that he would not be tortured. it can now be used as a template in future cases 2. The Court said that there was a risk that evidence in to be used against him Jordan (if he is deported and stands trial there) might have ben obtained by torture. The UK and Jordanian Governments have three monts to see if they can resolve the issue. If they do, then off he goes He has been under arrest, restriction, detention, without any charge, for about 9 years, for the last two in custody. The immigration judge has said that is unacceptable, he was on bail under a control order before being in custody and as he is not charged with anything he should be allowed bail, in an approved house, tagged, with no phone or internet, and allowec out for an hour twice a day, if no progress is made between UK and Jordan. If at the end of the three months there is no UK Jordan agreement he cannot be keptbe kept in custody anyway as the UK has no detention without charge. If he has committed terrorist offences, anywhere in the world he can be arrested and tried in the UK. That rather begs the question why has he not been charged and tried there? I suspect the answer is simple, the evidence would not stand up in the courts of England because of how it was obtained. So, should we ignore the rule of law, just because we do not agree with his politics? Should we allow persons, however repugnant their politics and views, to be sent for kangaroo or show trials with no safeguards or to be held without charge indefinitely. If we did what would that say about us and what would it say about our rights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You keep your friends close but your enemies closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxawol Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 ah so what your saying is that it is ok for him preach in his sermons that the UK should be blown off the face of the earth, every UK citizen should be killed along with the rest of the western world, or those that are not muslims. it's ok for him to have cash in envelopes clearly marked for the mujadeen fighters etc. to have bank accounts with thousands of pounds in them that he can't explain where it came from etc. this is not politics what so ever. i am all for freedom of speech, peoples right to have different opinions etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prism10 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 i am all for freedom of speech, peoples right to have different opinions etc. Maybe its better to let him preach here and go along and challenge him, even laugh at him. From what I have heard with many of these preachers, no matter what religions they adhere to, get past the bluster and a lot of it is just nonsense and hysteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 ah so what your saying is that it is ok for him preach in his sermons that the UK should be blown off the face of the earth, every UK citizen should be killed along with the rest of the western world, or those that are not muslims. I understand that the UK has laws that deal with promoting racial hatred and supporting terrorist organisations. Why not use them if he says what you report above? It has always been a problem dealing with this sort of person. Do you lower yourself to his level and turn him into a martyr, or do you use the laws of the land to deal with him in a way that exposes his irrationality to the world? It is very easy to turn madmen into 'martyrs for the cause'. Recognise this is not an easy a row to go down but do we let our standards stoop as low as his? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosferatu Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It stinks . If the European Court want's to stick up for him can't we just chuck him on the ferry to France and make him somebody elses problem . Be even easier if on the way to France he fell overboard. All the fuss about whether evidence was obtained by dodgy means makes me laugh , I mean it's not as if western countries would use things like torture to obtain info from terrorist suspects is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatdamaged Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Cheeky fuckers aren't they? Happy to preach about blowing the UK up and westerners are evil, yet quite happy to shop at Tesco and send his kids to school here Really fucks me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Really fucks me off. So he's winning. I used to feel like this when I ws in NI in the early 70s until I realised that the aim of terrorists is to make ordinary folk feel really peed off. Then they turn on their government and on the 'minority'. Then the 'minority' the terrorists claim to be representing (but aren't really) start to feel threatened. Then the minority are completely divided from the majority. And on it goes. Vey little effort on the part of the terrorists and they have society at one another's throats. Better IMO to undermine any authority they have by exposing their utter hypocrisy and stupidity. P.S. There were other problems in NI that provided a base for the terrorists to work from. Then for folk like this to get past first base there usually is something that they can manipulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Really fucks me off. So he's winning. I used to feel like this when I ws in NI in the early 70s until I realised that the aim of terrorists is to make ordinary folk feel really peed off. Then they turn on their government and on the 'minority'. Then the 'minority' the terrorists claim to be representing (but aren't really) start to feel threatened. Then the minority are completely divided from the majority. And on it goes. Vey little effort on the part of the terrorists and they have society at one another's throats. Better IMO to undermine any authority they have by exposing their utter hypocrisy and stupidity. P.S. There were other problems in NI that provided a base for the terrorists to work from. Then for folk like this to get past first base there usually is something that they can manipulate. ....and the aim of governments is to reinforce their level of control by accentuating the differences in the population and highlighting said injustices, putting it in the national media is a great way to achieve this. 'Divide and rule' is what governments do, it's tried and tested, the last thing they want is for people to see through all the bullsh*t and realise we're all the same underneath the skin colour. Yes you get idiots everywhere, but better to highlight and deal with them as idiots instead of focusing on the actions or words that come out of their mouths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheels Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Possibly he might like to go and live in America? He's bound to get a warm welcome there And that beard looks like a massive fire risk so why can't he be held under Health & Safety laws Anyway how hard is it to arrange an accident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 If he hates the UK that much, then find him a country that he does like and is able to go there, pay his flight and send him on his way. That way, both parties get what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 He's worth more to the UK being here than abroad. It helps them with their phony 'war on terror' if they can keep wheeling stories like this out every so often to get the masses angry and justify ever more increasing 'security' activities. I'm sure we'll get even more of these stories hitting the headlines the nearer we get to the Olympics, to keep us all in fear and looking over our shoulders at those big, bad muslims just itching to do us harm around every stadium or athletics track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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