Self Appointed Crazy-Haired Bossy Bat Has A Go At Chairman Of Whitley Council For Doing His Job Properly

[Lost Login]

For years the union leaders in the IoM have had it relativly easy. The Government thought it was awash with cash, did not want confrontation and was happy to quietly spend its way of of dealing with difficult issues. They got good results for their members cos for the most part the politicians were fairl spineless. That has been the case even up to the last election when the Govt rather than stand up and say no happily handed over more cash to do away with the arcane system of time off to bank a weekly pay cheque!

 

The money appears to be no longer there for this to continue, and it would appear that a fair proprtion of the blue collar work force are on pay and terms & conditions that have long been done away with in the UK and would be the envy of many in the UK.

 

The challenge now for the unions is how to they handle the required changes in pay and terms and conditions. Will they negotiate sensibly and have a smaller well paid but flexable workforce or will they did there heels in and do a Scargill/Wapping print union job and try and defend the indefencable before going back to work with their tail between their legs and having to accept whatever was offered.

 

It is easy being a union boss when you have weak leaders who can afford to give you want you want. Lets see how she does now the govt no longer can afford to do that even if they wanted to. My money is that she will crash and burn

[Hungry Harrison]

Im probably wrong as Im sure you are more clued up than I am but I thought this Moffatt girl represented Civil Servants rather than blue collar workers.

Havent you got yourself a bit confused or am I wrong ?

[Tugger]

I do not believe that the union members have a realistic idea of how much less money there is available to pay them. When you make 35 grand a year for throwing suitcases around, you end up believing that throwing suitcases around is actually worth 35 grand. There's no way Little Miss Moffett can tell them that, from now on, if they got 20 grand for that job, they'll accept that.

[Hungry Harrison]

I do not believe that the union members have a realistic idea of how much less money there is available to pay them. When you make 35 grand a year for throwing suitcases around, you end up believing that throwing suitcases around is actually worth 35 grand. There's no way Little Miss Moffett can tell them that, from now on, if they got 20 grand for that job, they'll accept that.

 

Do Civil Servants throw suitcases around on the Isle of Man?

I think you have made a mistake if you are referring to the men at the airport. They would belong to the old T&G union ..is it called Unite? The Moffatt girl is employed by a different union and mostly represents Civil Servants or other professionals.

[Kopek]

Dont you understand the damage that paying unskilled labour, skilled labour wages has to the islands long term financail sustainability?

 

So, a Willaston boy who puts on a suit and learns to use a calculator in a Bank is worth £40,000 a year but his Brother who spends his year transporting thousands of people to and from work and the shops, is not?

 

Are humble beginnings supposed to position you for life? Or should the Govt be doing more to raise the skills level of its population?

 

Slashing Student funding was suppose to be balanced by raising Vocational Training yet the Govt are cutting this facility.

 

The Govt get more taxes from higher wages, those on low wages are not able to make their contribution to our recovery.

[Tugger]

Whoever represents them is unlikely to be able to convince them that they are worth less than half what they are currently being paid.

 

And they are

[Tugger]

So, a Willaston boy who puts on a suit and learns to use a calculator in a Bank is worth £40,000 a year

 

That's up to the bank, who presumably will try to get as much value as possible from its wage bill, because it has a duty to its shareholders to maximise value to them.

 

but his Brother who spends his year transporting thousands of people to and from work and the shops, is not?

 

That's up to the government. You would think that they owe a duty to their taxpayers similar to that owed by the bank to its shareholders, but our politicians fail in that duty. They could get bus drivers for half what they pay, but they just don't give a shit.

 

The Govt get more taxes from higher wages, those on low wages are not able to make their contribution to our recovery

 

The government does not make money by paying public sector workers more Otherwise we could get out of our fix by paying bus drivers ten million pounds a year. The government loses money by overpaying public sector workers

[Monkey boy]

For years the union leaders in the IoM have had it relativly easy. The Government thought it was awash with cash, did not want confrontation and was happy to quietly spend its way of of dealing with difficult issues. They got good results for their members cos for the most part the politicians were fairl spineless. That has been the case even up to the last election when the Govt rather than stand up and say no happily handed over more cash to do away with the arcane system of time off to bank a weekly pay cheque!

 

The money appears to be no longer there for this to continue, and it would appear that a fair proprtion of the blue collar work force are on pay and terms & conditions that have long been done away with in the UK and would be the envy of many in the UK.

 

The challenge now for the unions is how to they handle the required changes in pay and terms and conditions. Will they negotiate sensibly and have a smaller well paid but flexable workforce or will they did there heels in and do a Scargill/Wapping print union job and try and defend the indefencable before going back to work with their tail between their legs and having to accept whatever was offered.

 

It is easy being a union boss when you have weak leaders who can afford to give you want you want. Lets see how she does now the govt no longer can afford to do that even if they wanted to. My money is that she will crash and burn

What relevance do term & conditions in the UK have to us? If you're looking for examples of good goverment /public employee relations is it really wise to only consider a deeply indebted country who privatised most of its public services 30 years ago & whose unemployment rate is rising almost as fast as its national debt.

It just seems a very strange sample of less than 1% of the world's population to choose when deciding how we should treat our public sector employees. Even if you do happen to come from there.

[Blade Runner]

Where do you sugest we look at MB? Genuine question.

[Lost Login]

Where do you sugest we look at MB? Genuine question.

 

I thought our nearest neighbour a logical choice as many of our working practices and much of our legislation over the years can be traced back to the UK. Many employees are members of trade unions which are centered in the UK. Maybe MB would have preferred it if I picked Ireland where the public sector and benefits have suffered massive cuts to try and solve their financial problems.

 

Or maybe I should have chosen India or China because of their high populations as MB seems to be complaining I chose a country that has only a small percentage of the world's population.

[Monkey boy]

Why not consider all of them?

[Lost Login]

Why not consider all of them?

 

Because it would be stupid! Do you really think that IoM workers would think it acceptable to be on the same pay and conditions as in some of the poorest countries of the world?

[Monkey boy]

Why not consider all of them?

 

Because it would be stupid! Do you really think that IoM workers would think it acceptable to be on the same pay and conditions as in some of the poorest countries of the world?

Ah but the word consider doesn't mean blindly copy does it?

We could simply look around the world at what public sector pay & conditions are like & how public servants are treated by their government. Some good new ideas for us may come from it or conversely we may decide that our system is as good as anyones & therefore stick to it - it is not always necessary to import ideas.

 

What I object to is automatically comparing things to the UK & aspiring to be like them in every way. Especially in cases like this and many others where the UK don't excel & are perhaps further from normal than we are ourselves.

 

In all probability in many cases the people who know what works best for the IOM are right here - people who know the place & the people. That's not to say we shouldn't look to the wider world for inspiration, but building the UK up as some kind of utopia of good governance & global normality is disolusioned, short sighted & in many cases self indulgent & certainly not what's best for the island or its people.

[Lost Login]

What I object to is automatically comparing things to the UK & aspiring to be like them in every way. Especially in cases like this and many others where the UK don't excel & are perhaps further from normal than we are ourselves.

 

In all probability in many cases the people who know what works best for the IOM are right here - people who know the place & the people. That's not to say we shouldn't look to the wider world for inspiration, but building the UK up as some kind of utopia of good governance & global normality is disolusioned, short sighted & in many cases self indulgent & certainly not what's best for the island or its people.

 

That may be true but I was comparing with the UK as some of the terms and conditions etc now are reminisant of what was around in the UK in the 70s and 80's. Over manning, high over time due to rigid contracts, inflexibility etc. That may have been affordable when funds were freely available or pay rates were low. The solutions may be different but many of the problems are the same and as many of the people involved are members of UK based unions you can bet that they is where they will be getting their advise and assistance from.

[Monkey boy]

What I object to is automatically comparing things to the UK & aspiring to be like them in every way. Especially in cases like this and many others where the UK don't excel & are perhaps further from normal than we are ourselves.

 

In all probability in many cases the people who know what works best for the IOM are right here - people who know the place & the people. That's not to say we shouldn't look to the wider world for inspiration, but building the UK up as some kind of utopia of good governance & global normality is disolusioned, short sighted & in many cases self indulgent & certainly not what's best for the island or its people.

 

That may be true but I was comparing with the UK as some of the terms and conditions etc now are reminisant of what was around in the UK in the 70s and 80's. Over manning, high over time due to rigid contracts, inflexibility etc. That may have been affordable when funds were freely available or pay rates were low. The solutions may be different but many of the problems are the same and as many of the people involved are members of UK based unions you can bet that they is where they will be getting their advise and assistance from.

I don't see the relevance of where the unions are based, I really don't.

Also your example of the way the UK tried to deal with the unions in the 70's & 80's underlines my point perfectly. It resulted in 3 million unemployed, desimated whole industries & 30 years on many previously public services are a mess, the national debt is rising daily & unemployment is well on the way towards 3 million again.

Perhaps a better way of tackling our current financial problems would be to look towards the top of government payscales for savings. Not only are these people in a better position to afford cuts but their number seems to have increased exponentially in the last few years & would help provide evidence that we are "all in it together" and help dispell the widely held perception that cuts are reserved for the most vulnerable in our society.