Declan Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 It's hard to say the British have moved on when the Home Secretary is trying every dirty trick she can think of to circumvent the rule of law, ignore the European Court of Human Rights and send a man to be tried using evidence obtained by torture in a faith based dictatorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I am proud to be from Peel. Peel has done nothing in its history to cause any embarrassing fuss. Although I am not sure about the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I am proud to be from Peel. Peel has done nothing in its history to cause any embarrassing fuss. Although I am not sure about the people. My brother was beaten up by three guys in the Peel Chinese restaurant just for being from Douglas! The Peel bobbies tried to shift the blame on to him sooner than their 'good old boys'! A bit like Alabama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Every country has parts of their past they'd rather forget. I don't think any atrocity should just be forgotten but it is so easy with hindsight and from the comfort of a 21C armchair to come to the conclusion you want with cherry picked memories/"facts". You just have to learn and move on. If you don't you end up with a narrow, blinkered and inhibited view of the world which is far from reality. It is also pointless visiting the sins of the fathers on their progeny. You are blaming a generation that obviously could have never had any control of the history involved. How unjust is that? However it can be useful tool if you have a need to bang a certain drum though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Very interesting series on at the moment 'Empire' with Jeremy Paxman. Throws some interesting light on modern day 'British' thinking and events. Personally, I see Britain in the same light as when the Roman Empire and similar large civilisations came to an end. Similar events, similar adjustments etc. and it taking 100 years to let go and realise the good times are over and few in the rest of the world listen to you anymore. IMO the best Briton to be these days is a 'self-reliant Briton'. Make yourself independent and up-to-date with your skills, as with that comes personal independence and happiness. And stop buying daily newspapers, and stop buying into 'Britain is still great', 'It's all the immigrant's fault' etc. One of the last places where we can make for happy government and happy people is the Isle of Man. It is small, politically, business, criminal, culturally and opportunity defensible. But it won't be for long with the current government and civil and public services simply spending our inheritance on themselves and taking more from and off us in the process. We really need to up our game if the island is not to effectively become a suberb of Barrow-In-Furness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Am I proud to have been born, as an accident of birth, on an island called the UK? As opposed to a few thousand miles south or east? What a silly notion. Why would I want to associate and define myself with the place of my birth and all that has come before from it, which is completely unrelated to me, just because of some emotion called pride? If people want to then that's fine but to me whatever nationality it says on my passport has no significance to me whatsoever and doesn't stir up any kind of 'emotion', positive or negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 It's hard to say the British have moved on when the Home Secretary is trying every dirty trick she can think of to circumvent the rule of law, ignore the European Court of Human Rights and send a man to be tried using evidence obtained by torture in a faith based dictatorship It's hard to believe you think this case is as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 ...and you, like me are free to give your own answer. I won't try to dissuade you from it... I think this is awfully good of you. And may it please you that I would be also happy for you to say anything you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 ...and you, like me are free to give your own answer. I won't try to dissuade you from it... I think this is awfully good of you. And may it please you that I would be also happy for you to say anything you want? Sorry, didn't intend the patronising tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I wasn't so much remarking on the patronising tone, as opposed the reason for you to say it. It's as if you don't like me questioning your feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I wasn't so much remarking on the patronising tone, as opposed the reason for you to say it. It's as if you don't like me questioning your feelings. Not at all. My point was that my pride is based on a subjective view of the virtues of Britain and their weight when compared to the equally subjective view of the negative aspects of the country. If you do possess a sense of national pride or shame, how you feel will probably depend on which way your personal balance tips. For me, whilst the recently revealed facts about such things as the "Malayan Emergency" and our deceit about the status of the Chagos Islanders are shameful, they don't outweigh the many positives, some of which I listed. A sense of national pride is based on the accident of birth at one level, but I would argue that it is equivalent to admiration for a particular foreign country, but in respect of one's own country. There is also, of course a strong cultural element, a sense of "my ain folk", shared language and heritage that predisposes towards pride in one's own country. If one feels alienated from these things, then of course it would make no sense to profess national pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I would agree with that you say about the matter being highly subjective. However, as you seem to intimate, it is clear that the pride does not come from recognising the positive connections to Britain, but rather people feel that pride and seek out ways to justify it. It is based on the accident at birth. And as a person grows up to have ideas of nationality and patriotism they become proud of their nation and country. As such they would undoubtedly start to pick from the bits they like with no thought to bad or to depreciate the bad connections. In my case, it is not a matter of alienation from nationalist and patriotism, but recognise that I am not justified in being prideful as a default position and simply because of an accident of birth. Whereas if I had good justification to be proud then that would make more sense. But simply being born somewhere doesn't seem adequate justification to have pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Git Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Am I proud to have been born, as an accident of birth, on an island called the UK? As opposed to a few thousand miles south or east? What a silly notion. I've always said that I'm happy to be born here, compared to being born in Ethiopa or Afghanistan for example. Proud? No Happy? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 LDV of course I agree tht being born somewhere is insufficient justification for national pride. I don't start from a default position, there really does have to be something to put on he positive side of the balance. Otherwise, it becomes "my nation right or wrong" which is a long way from my position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 When I mean the default position, I do actually mean the position of been eager to be pride and therefore seek justification. It is the overriding desire to feel proud that leads to attempts to find things to feel proud about. And this of course leads to a depreciation of the bad or negative. I wouldn't think for a moment that you had run off some balance and attempted to measure things in a careful way. It just can't be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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